Dodonpachi Saidaioujou Guide (Arcade and X360)

Started by EOJ, April 23, 2012, 11:10:30 PM

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EOJ

***ORIGINAL ARCADE PCB***
BASICS:
-Your GP meter (=chaining meter) rises when you defeat enemies or hit things with your laser.
Kill an enemy or hit something with your laser before the GP meter runs out and your hit count rises and you get the GP bonus.
-Scoring items received from destroyed enemies are larger when your GP meter is higher.
-When the GP meter runs out your hit count and GP bonus multiplier reduce by 30%
-You don't receive any GP bonus from the bosses. You can only increase your hit count on them.

HYPERS:
-Hypers can go up to Level 10. When you activate a hyper all the enemy bullets on the screen turn to score items. In addition, these things vary depending on your hyper level:
-How much your attack strength rises
-How many more items you get when the GP meter is maxed out
-How much of a hit boost you get from destroying enemies and hitting things with your laser.
-How much of a multiplier you get on your GP bonus
-Duration of GP meter will double (if your hyper is at a certain level)
-How much the rank raises, how difficult the game becomes

Ways to increase your hyper level:
-Get score items (only when you're not using a hyper)
-Hit enemies with your laser to increase hit count (your hyper meter raises faster when you have a higher hit count)
-Collect bee items (your hyper meter will raise more here if you have a higher hit count)
-Get close to enemies and hit them with the aura of your laser.

HYPER LEVEL : GP BONUS : RANK INCREASE (WHEN HYPER IS ACTIVATED)
1 : 1.1 : 1
2 : 1.2 : 1
3 : 1.3 : 2
4 : 1.4 : 2
5 : 1.5 : 3
6 : 2.2 : 3
7 : 2.4 : 4
8 : 2.6 : 4
9 : 2.8 : 5
10 : 3.0 : 5

Using a hyper at lv 6 or higher greatly increases your shot frequency and strength and it widens the size of your laser.

Things that decrease RANK:
Autobomb (rank -1)
Manual bomb (rank -2)
Death (rank -3)

Hibachi Requirements:
-You may die up to one time
-You don't have to get the Stage 4 1UP
-Must have perfect bees in at least 3 stages

Inbachi Requirements:
-No Miss
-No Bomb
-Collect all Bees
-Shot/laser: Rank at least 30, Max HIT at least 15,000
-Expert: Rank at least 15, Max HIT at least 10,000

Extends:
800,000,000
1,800,000,000
1UP pops out of the Stage 4 boss if you beat it without using any bombs

Clear bonus:
-1,000,000,000 per spare life
-50,000,000 per bomb in stock

---
Thanks to SIN for some of the info, and Olifante for the Inbachi requirements info.

***XBOX 360 PORT****
Info on the X360 port (copied from here, with the author's permission):

Here is some information on the differences between Arcade/1.5/360 (translated from here):

Hyper differences


Level    GP bonus         Rank increase   Duration%
         ACHD/360   1.5   All Modes       ACHD/360   1.5
1        1.1        2     1               100        50
2        1.2        2.2   1               100        60
3        1.3        2.4   2               100        70
4        1.4        2.6   2               100        80
5        1.5        2.8   3               100        90
6        2.2        3     3               100        100
7        2.4        3     4               100        100
8        2.6        3     4               100        100
9        2.8        3     5               100        100
10       3          3     5               100        100



Laser usage differences (hits per frame per hyper level)

             ACHD                  1.5              X360       

Hyp-Level    Frames     Hits       Frames    Hits   Frames    Hits
0            21         1          11        1      21        1
1            20         10         5         5      2         10
2            19         10         5         6      2         11
3            18         10         5         7      2         12 
4            17         10         5         8      2         13   
5            16         10         5         9      2         14 
6            6          20         4         10     2         20
7            5          20         4         10     2         22
8            4          20         3         10     2         24
9            3          20         3         10     2         26

10           2          20         2         10     2         28



Star item base values

Type        ACHD    1.5    360

Small-Air   100     100    100

Big-Air     1000    200    200

Small-Land  500     100    500

Big-Land    5000    200    5000




Notes: The current GP bonus is added to the values of each base value. In Ver 1.5 the current hit count x10 is also added to this value.



Number of hits added by each item during a hyper

            ACHD          1.5           360

Hyp-Level:  1~5 | 6~10    1~5 | 6~10    1~5 | 6~10

Small-Air   1     2       1     2       1     1

Big-Air     5     10      2     2       5     10

Small-Land  1     2       1     1       1     1

Big-Land    5     10      2     2       6     12



Bomb Maximum differences
Arcade HD: The point value is calculated by 2222 x Bomb Maximum Level. This is added to your score at different per frame rates, based on the Bomb Maximum Level:
Level 1: Every 3 frames
Level 2: Every 2 frames
Level 3: Every 1 frame

Ver 1.5:  The point value is calculated by 2222 x (Rank/5 + 1) x Bomb Maximum Level. This is added to your score at every 1 frame, regardless of Bomb Maximum Level. So, for example, if you are at Bomb Maximum Level 2 and your rank is 8, your bonus per frame is 2222 x (8/5 + 1=2.6) x 2, which is 11,554 points per frame.

Bee item differences
Arcade HD: The hyper gauge increases based on the value of your hit count when you collect a bee. Each 50 hits increases the gauge by 1%, up to a maximum of 30% per bee. When you collect the last bee in a stage, you get a 100% bonus on top of this (which equals one extra hyper level).

Ver 1.5:  The hyper gauge increases based on the value of your hit count when you collect a bee. Each 200 hits increases the gauge by 1%, up to a maximum of 100% per bee. When you collect the last bee in a stage, you get a 100% bonus on top of this (which equals one extra hyper level).

360: Unlike the other two modes, your hyper gauge does not increase when you collect bee items. Instead, you get the point value of the bee item as follows:
Shot:  1000 x MAX hit value
Laser/Expert: 10,000 x MAX hit value
Also, when you get perfect bees for a stage the last bee's value is doubled.

Other notes:
-In Ver 1.5, Rank plays a role in the amount of hyper gauge increase per star item: at Rank 50 the gauge increases are 1.5 times that of Rank 0.
-Enemy point values are different across all 3 modes.
-You can't score on or milk bosses in any mode.
-Hit count does not affect hyper gauge increases while using the laser in 360 mode.
-Novice is the same as Arcade HD in all matters discussed above.
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cstarflare

Quote-How much of a hit boost you get from destroying enemies and hitting lasers.

I didn't notice any lasers in the videos I've seen so far. Where do they come in?

EOJ

Thanks for the heads up, it was a typo. Should have been "hitting things with your laser". Fixed!
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SuperPang


x91

#4
To score in SDOJ, You have to:

Try not to trigger Auto Bombs, this breaks the chain immediately;
Try not to die or manual bomb, this will empty the GP meter, which results in cutting 30% off your current chain count and GP bonus.

AND

Time your Hyper activating spots. It needs you to memorize where you can recharge your Hyper stock up to 5 (ideal, basically only happens in stage 5, most of the time 3 is OK).
This is how the recovery works:
Just before your ongoing Hyper ends, destroy one bullet-cancelling object, and all the bullets will turn into big stars; then your power up is over, and you have a full GP meter, keep killing and these big stars are bathed in purple glow. You get them automatically(switch to LASER for a second to collect).

*purple glow stars can increase your hyper stock gauge. The bigger the star, more gauge you get.

------
Some other tips:

GP bonus multiplier:
It's always recommended starting a Hyper at Lv6 or higher, unless you are going to recharge. Already in the admin's guide, go check the details out.

Boss battle:
If you take your high chain into boss battle, when you lasering the boss, you hyper gauge increases much faster than usual. For example, taking 8000hits+ and 2 hyper stocks to stage 2 boss, then finish the fight without any bombs or HYPERS, you come out with 5 hypers!(We did this many times)

The last pattern of Stage 4 boss, if you stay inside and close to those discs, your hyper recharges quickly. The same as DOJ. Weird, hit count doesn't affect the recharge speed here. You can get 2 hypers with about more than 50% of the gauge, even 3, as long as you don't die.

TLB condition:
3 of 5 stages bee item perfect.
Death < 2.

EDIT: Offical TLB condition

EOJ

Destroying the sidepods on the stage 1 boss gives you 2 hypers, as shown in this video:

http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=194.msg29157#msg29157

It also looks like you get 1 bonus hyper at the end of the stage, before the boss, if you get all the bees (you get the bonus hyper when you pick up the last bee).
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moozooh

#6
http://www55.atwiki.jp/saidaioujo/pages/13.html

Japanese SDOJ wiki, probably worth checking out by those who know the runes.

Also this, crossposting from shmups farm:

QuoteSome more delicious S/L-style game breakage: http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm17656088

Includes:
? a survival trick to trivialize stage 3 midboss using a bomb (might even be useful in mid-tier score runs if you decide to spend all of your hypers on stage 2);
? a complete strategy for easy and efficient quick kill of stage 3 boss using safespots and pointblanking;
? a demonstration of quick stage 4 midboss kill;
? a safe stage 4 boss safespot demonstration.
<dan76> As it is I'll have to endure high res - life's hard.

Animaitor

Thanks EOJ! I'll put this to good use soon.

moozooh

#8
This 13.3 billion clear by pikkorrro suggests 150 million per bomb at the endgame tally. Note that he played Laser style with autobomb off, so maybe it's different for Shot or autobomb on. Edit: nope, same for A-S with autobomb on.

On a different note, this score is the highest seen to date, and 1/3 of it is the huge endgame bonus amounting to 4.5 billion out of the maximum (?) 7 billion for non-TLB clear: 6 billion for lives, 0.6 billion for bombs, up to ~0.4 billion for full-chaining the stage, and maybe there's something for the max bomb multiplier. This is one of the highest clear bonuses I've seen in a Pachi game. Can't say I'm a big fan of survival-driven bonuses, but it definitely appears to be a boon to those who prefer scoring by survival: I expect up to some 10-odd billion to be attainable on a no-miss credit with zero attention to chaining or hyper timing. If you hyper enough you may even get to Hibachi this way, lol.
<dan76> As it is I'll have to endure high res - life's hard.

Kaneda

Quote from: moozooh on May 09, 2012, 11:43:21 AMOn a different note, this score is the highest seen to date...

I watched a guy get 15.1 billion with the A-S last week. He only lost one life, but didn't trigger the TLB.

I'm curious as to what the first Arcadia scores will be like. My guess is over 20 billion, with the A-S being the highest scoring ship type.

No-missing the game, including the 5 billion-point TLB, would be 11 billion alone, but it'll probably be a few months before that happens. I think the short length of this game (is it Cave's shortest ever?) will mean top players will get to the theoretical max scores pretty quickly.

moozooh

IIRC, Dangun is the shortest at less than 20 minutes long. This one is about 30 minutes with the TLB? Well, pretty short anyway, yeah.

I'm guessing the first Arcadia scores will be higher with Shot but will tend towards Laser later on. TLB clears will definitely go above 20 billion, I'm expecting 30+ billion somewhere down the road. A-L seems to be the favorable option as it can pointblank more efficiently and dodge around some of the attacks (then again, type A can't get a lot of the enemies on stage 4, so it'll probably even out somehow).

As for the theoretical max, I wouldn't be worried about that. The game starts off rather challenging and becomes more challenging as you score better, culminating in one of the sickest TLBs to date, then there's the recharge trick that can be pulled off in dozens of places around the game including bosses. All that considered, I'm not expecting the top players perfect it any soon. Well, certainly not on Expert anyway. The current best Shot/Laser clears on Nico get most of their score from the sheer length of stage 5 and/or endgame bonus, while those that score well in the first four stages get slaughtered on stage 5. Even DFK 1.5's first loop is still being improved by tens of billions four years after its release, and one would think they would have exhausted its potential by now...
<dan76> As it is I'll have to endure high res - life's hard.

Kaneda

DFK is also like an hour per loop with all of the heinous boss milking. You don't have as much time to score (or screw up), so I think this one may not have the shelf life its brothers do, but I'd love to be proven wrong since I really like the game. My favorite Cave game since MMP, for sure.

btw, I've been getting a little frustrated with my score in this. I'm doing much better in the first three stages, but then I drive the rank up too much and the latter half is worse than ever, so my score evens out to about what it was before. :facepalm:

TimingTripod40

I think it will be like Futari God where people will figure out near-optimal strats relatively quickly but the TLB and clear bonus will stop them from actually maxing the game out for a while.

Miklaios Maliris

Nice guide!

But, I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but I have a question... What is the backstory of this game?

EOJ

This vid shows you can die once (and miss the stage 4 1UP) and still get Hibachi at the end:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17818685
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EOJ

Nice vid showing some clever boss tactics and the usefulness of your ship's aura attack:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17836404
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x91

Today I managed to bring 7000+ hits to the last pattern of 4Boss, and the recharge speed is just as usual. Hit count doesn't affect here. Just focus on dodging.

EOJ

Updated with lots of info on the different modes in the X360 port (thanks to awo and SIN for the info)!
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EOJ

#18
Twitter user A1NVERSE has posted Olifante's discovery of a difference in Inbachi requirements in relation to Shot/Laser and Expert. Olifante discovered the actual requirements are:

-No Miss
-No Bomb
-Collect all Bees
-Shot/laser: Rank at least 30, Max HIT at least 15,000
-Expert: Rank at least 15, Max HIT at least 10,000

https://twitter.com/A1NVERSE/status/1393815401553743873
https://twitter.com/A1NVERSE/status/1393819792662925317

This has been verified by PEK:

https://twitter.com/peketti/status/1393914390475247617

I've updated the main post with this new info.
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Plasmo

In case you have missed my tweet on this, here it is: https://twitter.com/Plasmo_STG/status/1393829221731078144

It would be nice to give credit to the person who has actually found it.

EOJ

I was not aware of Olifante discovering this. PEK thanked A1NVERSE for the info, so I assumed he discovered it. I see now another tweet from A1NVERSE crediting Olifante. I will update the main post.

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EOJ

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twitter: @cavexstg
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Xbox gamertag: eojx9999

Plasmo

Maybe it's just me, but I always find these things to be very important. Seems like whoever added it to the wiki didn't think that way.

BTW you can edit the wiki yourself and add his name (if not, I will probably do that myself eventually). That brings me to the next question: are you not interested in dropping some of your CAVE knowledge on the wiki? You've put so much work into so many of the strategy sections here on the forum, why not throw that (in one form or the other) on the wiki? It definitely means to invest work & time, but you can also do much nicer things using wiki syntax than on a forum. Visibility of the wiki also seems to be really good! You can be sure that many newcomers will make use of the things you put on there, which helps to spread the CAVE love.

It's a heavily community-driven project so it's only ever as good as the people who decide working on it. Maybe this could also spark some new activity over here when it comes to planning these sort of game pages. I still want to properly build up the Pink Sweets page there. I feel obliged to do so!

Would be really cool to see you write something for a page or two over there. :righton:

But I'm getting off-topic here, sorry bout that!

EOJ

I'm afraid I don't see any point in writing for a wiki when I have written (and will continue to write) everything here on a site I own. I mean, I might as well just close down the website if I'm going to be writing wiki entries.

I also think the forum format is better for writing guides than a wiki, because people can post in them to ask questions, add new info, or point out erroneous info (and subsequent debate can ensue). I want to actively encourage others to post info and discussions here.

I recently discovered that as an Admin here I can write posts in html code, unlike other users. In the future I plan to do this for guides and other aspects of the site, to make them a bit nicer.
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EOJ

I was practicing stage 5 with C-Shot in the X360 port today. I was trying to replicate SUG's pattern. After many failed attempts I noticed something peculiar about his last hyper after the mid-boss rush.

See here: https://youtu.be/XBIrlGNLkwI?t=1140

It should be time-stamped to begin around the 19 minute mark. Watch until that hyper ends, and he begins to refill. He activates the hyper before he has collected all the stars. It says 0 hypers in stock in the top left. But, at the end of that hyper (at 19:36), the stock automatically changes from 0 to 1 (not due to collecting the stars at the end of the hyper). This must mean you can carry a "hidden" hyper while a hyper is activated, if you time a hyper during the "refill" just right.

So many high level tricks like this in the game, it's much deeper than I thought.
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el_rika

#25
Nice catch man  :righton:

I wonder if this can be somewhat abused for pure survival run.