Author Topic: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run  (Read 1406 times)

Offline peg

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Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« on: June 07, 2019, 12:16:29 AM »
Do you know why the Kuro serial numbers goes up to around 240-250, yet Cave claims only 100?

I know some of them were converted to regular Ibara but I can't imagine it was that many (and I've only seen 3 of these in my investigating).  Also several other boards were also converted back to Kuro like Pink Sweets, Mushi Futari, and Mushihime Tama, and I've seen at least one of each of those which probably cancels out all the other Kuro->Ibara conversions.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 12:26:35 AM »
Do you know why the Kuro serial numbers goes up to around 240-250, yet Cave claims only 100?


It is somewhat puzzling. For some reason they decided to make a bunch of regular Ibara kits at the same time as Kuro, and used the same serial number system and mixed them all together. My theory is a run of 100 wasn't cost-effective, so they ordered 200-250 and made 100 Kuros and 100-150 Ibaras, all with IB- serials. This would also explain why later BL runs, other than MFBL which consisted of 100% converted PCBs (from MMP, Futari, and PS), were 200 a piece.

Quote

Also several other boards were also converted back to Kuro like Pink Sweets, Mushi Futari, and Mushihime Tama, and I've seen at least one of each of those which probably cancels out all the other Kuro->Ibara conversions.

Comparatively few of these were made (and I have seen a lot more than three IB- serial Ibaras over the past 13 years). Most (if not all) were part of the second and third "extra" prints which seem to have been made exclusively for Hong Kong distributors, and is likely the reason why CAVE does not acknowledge them as part of the original Japanese run of 100 PCBs***. For a time CAVE were making Kuro PCBs to order (again, for HK shops only), and they seem to have just used excess, unsold/returned stock of poor selling games like Pink Sweets and Mushi Tama (plus Futari because they must have had some of those lying around as well). The use of PS and Futari should be a dead giveaway that these were later conversions, because those games weren't released until after Kuro. In a way, this was a precursor to the MFBL AV distribution.

Today, last I checked Kuro is only installed in a handful of Japanese arcades, rarely pops up for sale, and is mostly in the clutches of collectors.

***They mention the 100 number for Kuro in the official CAVE history book. But again, if they exclude International distribution, technically they aren't lying.
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Offline peg

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 12:58:06 AM »
I've also heard somewhere (don't remember where) that the one dot version of Kuro indicates the first run and the 2 dot version are later versions.  I personally have one of the converted boards and it is the 2 dot version, I think it is a converted Futari.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 01:20:03 AM »
I've also heard somewhere (don't remember where) that the one dot version of Kuro indicates the first run and the 2 dot version are later versions.  I personally have one of the converted boards and it is the 2 dot version, I think it is a converted Futari.

I mentioned the possibility of the 2 dot version being bug-fixed here: http://cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=91.0.

My current Kuro PCB is a one-dot. Serial IB-073. And it does not have any of the bugs I mentioned in the above thread. In that thread you can also see rtw had a one-dot without any bugs.

You are probably correct that the 2 dot indicates it is a later conversion (and a good way to distinguish those PCBs part of the original 100 and those that were made later for Hong Kong distribution). But the fact that some one dots show bugs and others do not leads me to believe it is a hardware, rather than software, issue.

The one 2 dot version I owned was purchased "brand new" from a Hong Kong distributor in 2008.

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Offline EOJ

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 05:15:12 PM »
Topic split and moved to a more relevant forum.
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Offline Jcmorris

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2021, 04:51:57 PM »
Hey guys I’m in the middle of a move and was going through my old PCBs and noticed my print number is different from any Iv ever seen listed. It’s IBB-40206, so based on that it’s #246, I’m guessing it was one of the last of the second original run that did not have the sticker on box.

I purchased it around 2015 along with a few other cave kits. The original owner told me he bought them directly from Cave at the time of release. In the case of IBK he said that it was in the second batch run, I have the full kit along with the poster.

Anyways, just posting this to hear some of people’s thoughts about it or have any more info as I always love to learn more!

Offline EOJ

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2021, 04:56:29 PM »
Can you post a picture of the serial number label, as well as the date stamps on the back of the PCB? Having never seen such a serial number for Kuro, I am a bit suspicious, and we have recently seen fake serial labels in the market.

Also suspicious the owner would say they bought it directly from CAVE at release, since CAVE did not sell kits directly at the time (also, if he bought it "at release" as he claimed, it would have been in the first batch, not the second). Their distributor was AMI, and kits could only be purchased through shops, and shops bought them from AMI.
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Offline Jcmorris

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2021, 05:35:05 PM »
Sure! I think he just meant he bought them when they were coming direct new from CAVE not that he personally bought from them without a middle. Have Fjcom stickers. Here’s pics of the board, also my DDP DFK 1.5, same seller. Also got a mushi futari  1.5 same seller , not pictured. All were full kits bought new , only Kuro had the Poster. He claimed to be original and only owner, he had no reason to lie about any of this , also sold me a super clean Egret 2. This was 2015 and Iv been holding it ever since.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2021, 05:40:49 PM »
That's a Deathsmiles PCB (note the CA017 on the chip near the battery - that's Deathsmiles' catalogue code). Also the date stamp on the back, September 2007, aligns with deathsmiles. The second stamp is from May 2008, which is the time when DDP DFK was released. So this PCB was converted over 2 years after Kuro was released.

I can't see anything there that flags it as a fake (unless someone really knew what they were doing). So it may just be a very unusual, late conversion done by CAVE. I'm surprised they would bother to put a new serial label on it, though!



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Offline Jcmorris

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2021, 05:56:49 PM »
That's a Deathsmiles PCB (note the CA017 on the chip near the battery - that's Deathsmiles' catalogue code). Also the date stamp on the back, September 2007, aligns with deathsmiles. The second stamp is from May 2008, which is the time when DDP DFK was released. So this PCB was converted over 2 years after Kuro was released.

I can't see anything there that flags it as a fake (unless someone really knew what they were doing). So it may just be a very unusual, late conversion done by CAVE. I'm surprised they would bother to put a new serial label on it, though!

 Very interesting! So you are thinking it was a super late in house CAVE conversion from a Deathsmiles board?

Yeah it is a full mint kit, down to the original poster. Iv definitely dealt with some unscrupulous individuals over the years. It this seller didn’t rub me that way not do I think he would have had thre know how to pull off something like that. He was a collector whom lived in Texas who was having problems paying the bills  doing graphic design and was selling his collection on shmups. I contacted him privately before he listed anything and purchased Kuro, DFK, Futari, the e2. Although he had a bunch of other full kits. He told me he had bought all of them brand new when they released.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2021, 06:16:27 PM »

 Very interesting! So you are thinking it was a super late in house CAVE conversion from a Deathsmiles board?


Either that or a later conversion by a private individual. But it was definitely a Deathsmiles board, in either case.

If there isn't any clear evidence it was done by a private individual, the default is to assume it was done by CAVE.

By the way, there is one documented case of another user here (Platypus Stan), way back in 2009, who bought a Kuro kit new from Fujita and it came without any serial number on it! I'd like to see if his PCB was converted from DS as well. Here's the thread:

http://cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=658
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Offline peg

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2021, 07:18:16 PM »
What is the master version string for that kuro? Possibly a newer revision?

Offline Jcmorris

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Re: Ibara Kuro version differences and print run
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2021, 05:27:57 PM »
What is the master version string for that kuro? Possibly a newer revision?

Wasn’t sure if you were talking to me but I popped it in and took a few pics.