Online Matsuri 2010.10.16

[KOA]

If your life depended on one of the 1P keychains or straps, I got bad news for ya.
2P not an issue.

lol irl rank on 1p ships.

[Medal]

Yeah, I'm itching like mad for the EVAC and [5] pins. Is there any chance one of each can be gotten for me?

[skykid]

The more we talk about this the more I'm actually getting a hard on for the signed DOJ print.

WTF is wrong with me.

The fact you got a hard on for the DOJ print made me laugh a bit today.  I decided I'd like one of these for my office, which is mostly just white undecorated walls.  I pretty well do what I want, but figured I'd go for the wife's approval just to soften the grief later.  The exchange went something like this..

Her:  Do what you want but they are little girls in garters..

Me:  The DOJ one is pretty nice.

Her:  It's a phallus..

Me:  Really?  It's just a crashed space ship.

Her:  LOL

Yeah, she's right. It's just us that can't see it anymore.

First time I saw that pic, I thought the same thing, looks like a little girl stroking a giant cock. Now I just think it's awesome.

Shmup fever got me.

[dcharlie]

seems like the world and his dog was hammering the Cave site on saturday. 503 503 503 Oh in! 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503. My poor pf5 key.

Managed to get the DDP and Futari prints.... no hard on yet though

[skykid]

seems like the world and his dog was hammering the Cave site on saturday. 503 503 503 Oh in! 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503. My poor pf5 key.

Managed to get the DDP and Futari prints.... no hard on yet though

After you look at your bank balance you won't be able to get it up for weeks.

[GaijinPunch]

seems like the world and his dog was hammering the Cave site on saturday. 503 503 503 Oh in! 503 503 503 503 503 503 503 503. My poor pf5 key.

Managed to get the DDP and Futari prints.... no hard on yet though

There's a trick to actually getting shit in your cart.  It still takes forever, but I was able to check out w/ everything by about 13:00 or so... still lots of 503 errors, but not tons.

[skykid]

Seriously... apologies to all in advance for coming back to the subject. Just came back to this thread thinking about that damn DOJ print and did a currency conversion and my hard on disappeared immediately.

?154 before inevitable fees and shipping? They can fuck right off. Talk about a company believing their own hype, that's bordering on extortion.
I was at Battle of Destiny in London a couple of months ago and both that crazy bastard Yoshinori Ono and Tekken director Katsuhiro Harada turned up unannounced, and signed everyone's stuff for free. Street Fighter and Tekken might not be high on our priority list (not mine, I didn't queue for those sigs) but they're all just game devs - no real difference between them. Those guys didn't ask a penny for all those autographs and photos - I don't even know if it was planned for them to turn up at all.

Umehara Daigo was also there, I got him to sign my Japanese Xbox 360. Freebie of course.

And when Shigeru Miyamoto came to Virgin Megastore in central London to do a signing, he put his famous scribe on my JP copy of Ocarina of Time. Free.

Dunno why it pisses me off. I'm guessing because I'd really like a Junya Inoue signed DOJ print - but for the ?180 odd it would cost me to procure, I'd expect to fuck his sister too.

[brentsg]

Dunno why it pisses me off. I'm guessing because I'd really like a Junya Inoue signed DOJ print - but for the ?180 odd it would cost me to procure, I'd expect to fuck his sister too.

But it's more than that.  I'm sure they are selling a bunch of these things.  And personally I'd rather pony up some bucks than queue for a line and wait around with a bunch of other geeks.

[markedkiller78]

It doesn't cost ?150-180, it's 20,000 yen.

20,000 yen is 20,000 yen 3 years ago, 2 years ago or even next week.

Blame the economy for the fucked up exchange rate. They are too rich for my blood. I'll stick to my flyer collecting

[skykid]

It doesn't cost ?150-180, it's 20,000 yen.

20,000 yen is 20,000 yen 3 years ago, 2 years ago or even next week.

Blame the economy for the fucked up exchange rate. They are too rich for my blood. I'll stick to my flyer collecting

Even on a better exchange rate, they're asking too much! Decent frame, nice mounting cardboard and a matte print. What's that, fiver at wholesale tops?

Dunno why it pisses me off. I'm guessing because I'd really like a Junya Inoue signed DOJ print - but for the ?180 odd it would cost me to procure, I'd expect to fuck his sister too.

But it's more than that.  I'm sure they are selling a bunch of these things.  And personally I'd rather pony up some bucks than queue for a line and wait around with a bunch of other geeks.

Wut? 

You're telling me if IKD and Inoue make a surprise showing at an unauthorised Cave shmupping event in your town and decide to sign everyone's shmup wares to show some love to the fans, you'll walk away because you'd have to queue with *likeminded* game geeks because you can get the same thing online for $260 bucks+ shipping?
No chance.

The guys who run Battle of Destiny at neoempire.com have built a solid reputation for holding the largest cash prize fighting game tournaments in the UK, and they've done remarkably well. Over a 1000 attendees at the last place for sure, and more and more fighting game devs are coming to visit out of interest. The previous event Guilty Gear producer turned up as they were doing a tourney for BlazBlue (newly released at the time) and he signed everyone's shit.

The point I'm getting at is, IKD, Inoue, Haccan, Miyamoto, Harada, Ono, Daigo - all the same. Just guys making (playing in Daigo's case) games. And for Miyamoto, they're some of the biggest in history. But only a select few are cool to fleece the fans like there's no tomorrow.

I like Cave merch, I buy it if I think it's a good bit of kit, and I still will. But those art prints are an assfucking the like I've not yet seen. I thought ?40 Iphone cases were bad, and the Zippo's were a bit nutty (but at least they're real Zippo's), but the print prices, one of which I'd really, really like ( ) are just the wrong side of rip-off for me.

[SuperPang]

Inoue and IKD have both signed stuff for free (+several hours queuing) at matsuri events. Cave are hardly the first company to offer signed merchandise at a premium en masse either.

(There, I hate myself slightly less now).

[skykid]

Inoue and IKD have both signed stuff for free (+several hours queuing) at matsuri events. Cave are hardly the first company to offer signed merchandise at a premium en masse either.

(There, I hate myself slightly less now).

I know, I remember GP had something signed once after a lengthy queue. I've not got a problem with the guys making money. Small dev, makes great games, need cash. No problem, I've given my fair share.
But I don't agree with the pricing, it's mental. Those prints would be a hefty sum even at ?50, but ?50 I'd be prepared to pay for the reasons noted above.

[GaijinPunch]

But it's more than that.  I'm sure they are selling a bunch of these things.  And personally I'd rather pony up some bucks than queue for a line and wait around with a bunch of other geeks.

Thank you.  Now you know why I hate the real matsuris.  If NTSC-J queues w/ me at the next one it might be worth it.

you'll walk away because you'd have to queue with *likeminded* game geeks because you can get the same thing online for $260 bucks+ shipping?
No chance.

I paid someone out of pocket to queue and make the purchase for me at the last winter matsuri.  Believe it or not, not everyone wants to get their geek on in public. 3x worse when you're taller and whiter than everyone.

I know, I remember GP had something signed once after a lengthy queue.

I was the last person allowed in line.  I got Inoue to sign this.  He was only allowed to do DS illustrations, so I was cool w/ that.  The look on his face was worth the queue.  We exchanged a few words.  He asked the obligatory "do gaijin like shooters", etc. etc.  

Mark is right.  20,000 yen is 20,000 yen to everyone except us.  It's still only one really fun night out on the town... or 2 decent ones.

And now, for my obligatory, "It's a good thing there's no gun pointed to your head forcing you to buy it", right?  (Unfortunately for Super Pang, there is one.  It's his hand holding the gun. ). I can name many other companies that gouge way worse than Cave.  Sega, in their final days, were the kings of novelty shit they sold through their website... and in the long run, they're by far the more influential company...even if they are total donkey fluffers at the moment.  Nintendo has released how many versions of the fucking GBA & DS?  We can go non-gaming if you want: Sony & Pioneer both ride their name recognition.  One makes shit, the other good stuff... but still over priced.

[brentsg]

Not going to quote all that but no, I won't spend hours standing around waiting to shake someone's hand, and I won't bother a celebrity out in public.

I used to see St. Louis Rams/Blues/Cardinals players out and about all the time but ive yet to do more than smile or say hello depending on circumstance.  They must get sick of being bothered.  Likewise, they all do autograph signings and such but I don't partake. 

The only auto items I own are a Kurt Warner football, done by Upper Deck.. And a framed pic of the Enterprise signed by Shatner and Nimoy, offered in a series by our post office.

[skykid]

GP, you make some good points (I knew it was that you had signed - all win  )

I've no idea about price gouging from Sega, but I know how businesses roll with regard to releasing multiple hardware models and a motherload of novelty gashapon/toy based crap (Nintendo). I have been to Japan and witnessed the merchandise frenzy with my own eyes. But I still consider getting a game console, LE or otherwise, to be cool as long as it's the same price on release as all the others on the market, and if you've got a burning desire to collect all the Mario related plastic Nintendo stick on street corners, you may as well get collecting - there's a lot of it, but it's not particularly bank breaking.
I'm sure Sega didn't whack signatures on their shit and add ?100+ to the price of their online goods? I remember all the novelty junk, crap as it was, being reasonably priced considering its 'limited' status?

Also, I've seen Japanese queues, they're ridiculous. I wouldn't stand in a queue for four hours either, the one I'm talking about was about 5 minutes tops. I just rolled up to Daigo for a quick word exchange while he was watching SFIV and he was more than happy to to sig the 360. Very nice guy.
And I'm not sure about Japanese geeks either - the hopeless pedo's ogling the 12 year old Deathsmiles 2 cosplayers at the AOU wasn't the type of gang I'd like to hang with - but the guys in London are a really cool crowd and whenever I visit such an event it's great to see them all.

So yeah, I'm standing by it. ?50, yes, why not, support the company, take my money. ?150, suck my balls.

[dcharlie]

?50, yes, why not, support the company, take my money. ?150, suck my balls.

only a few years ago , 50 quid would have been around 12,000 yen. 

Regardless - i like the prints - and i've spent way more on custom game art commissions *shrug*

[dcharlie]

they turned up tonight - they are, as they say, nice as fuck.

Kicking myself i didn't get the full four :/

[GaijinPunch]

I'm sure Sega didn't whack signatures on their shit and add ?100+ to the price of their online goods? I remember all the novelty junk, crap as it was, being reasonably priced considering its 'limited' status?

Well, they didn't make it a huge habit of getting "famous" designers either.  My beef w/ them was all the toiletries and bullshit merchandise.  It wasn't necessarily cheap, either.

they turned up tonight - they are, as they say, nice as fuck.

Working the night shift. :/  Mine has shipped, and likely arrived.
Might try to get one person's box together before leaving.

[skykid]

Well, they didn't make it a huge habit of getting "famous" designers either.  My beef w/ them was all the toiletries and bullshit merchandise.  It wasn't necessarily cheap, either.

Famous designers? Comes with the catalogue doesn't it? Yu Suzuki, no?

But yeah, I think all larger Japanese game devs are responsible for churning out bullshit merchandise, not just Sega. I don't remember that shit they were selling online being cheap either, but on the flip side, not disproportionately expensive.

they turned up tonight - they are, as they say, nice as fuck.

Kicking myself i didn't get the full four :/

Ya bastard, I'm jealous. 
I really want the DOJ but the sensible part of my brain is telling me I need another holiday instead.

[markedkiller78]

Ya bastard, I'm jealous. 
I really want the DOJ but the sensible part of my brain is telling me I need another holiday instead.

What?s the point of money, if not to buy the shit you want over and above the stuff you need?

So yeah, I'm standing by it. ?50, yes, why not, support the company, take my money. ?150, suck my balls.

Even though your ground is on the wrong continent? The cost would never, ever be set at ?50. GBP is the currency used in your own country. Currency is and as far as I can surmise, always will be volatile & fluctuate.

Pick a price in Yen. 500Y, 2,000Y 10,000Y. Which one would be a fair price? You need to take into consideration that Japan is an expensive country.

A good indicator of the actual cost of things is a McDonalds Extra Value Meal (or a pint of beer). How many McDonalds meals does the picture cost?

AFAIK it?s 690 yen for a meal in McD?s, so this picture costs 20,000 / 690 = 29 value meals
In GBP that would be = ?101.15 (29 x ?3.49)

So, the framed, signed, picture by a famous and revered artist is now ?100. As GP said, one good night out (on your own) or a quiet meal, drink & trip to the cinema for a couple). Does tat make the Progear Opening Story Flyer you had for sale at ?100 look a bit rich :?

[skykid]

Ya bastard, I'm jealous.  
I really want the DOJ but the sensible part of my brain is telling me I need another holiday instead.

What?s the point of money, if not to buy the shit you want over and above the stuff you need?

So yeah, I'm standing by it. ?50, yes, why not, support the company, take my money. ?150, suck my balls.

Even though your ground is on the wrong continent? The cost would never, ever be set at ?50. GBP is the currency used in your own country. Currency is and as far as I can surmise, always will be volatile & fluctuate.

Pick a price in Yen. 500Y, 2,000Y 10,000Y. Which one would be a fair price? You need to take into consideration that Japan is an expensive country.

A good indicator of the actual cost of things is a McDonalds Extra Value Meal (or a pint of beer). How many McDonalds meals does the picture cost?

AFAIK it?s 690 yen for a meal in McD?s, so this picture costs 20,000 / 690 = 29 value meals
In GBP that would be = ?101.15 (29 x ?3.49)

So, the framed, signed, picture by a famous and revered artist is now ?100. As GP said, one good night out (on your own) or a quiet meal, drink & trip to the cinema for a couple). Does tat make the Progear Opening Story Flyer you had for sale at ?100 look a bit rich :?

Ha ha, no!  

I view a rarity (i.e. an item that's scarce as hell but in some demand) to be a worthy outlay of ?100, paper or otherwise. If it started without any sale value whatsoever (if you discount the fact it was bundled with an operator kit) then it's earned it's worth.
My Ocarina of Time cost ?8 from Japan, but I don't know what it's worth with Shig's sig on it. I just prefer me going to them for the signature, than them saying, look, we signed some prints for you. 20,000 yen if you got it? And you're right, Japan is a very expensive country. I'd wager 20k to the average Japanese worker on a basic income would be relatively more expensive an ask than it is for me!

It's not really an argument though, just a point of view.
I agree that you can't judge another currency by your own, or else an Argentinian loaf of bread in 2001 would have been mind-bogglingly disproportionate.

You narrowed it down to ?100 by being objective about currency fluctuations, and I'd say that's about right (although the kid working in the Shinjuku McDonalds might still find it a stretch). For me, that's still Cave asking too much money. Inoue is no more a revered artist than some of Capcom's finest, or in the eyes of an SNK enthusiast, Shinkiro.
Just depends how much into shmups you are I suppose, and I'm into shmups, I'm really into DOJ, and I'm really into that art. Just not for the ?180+ it'll cost me to get my hands on it.  

Point of view and all that, and I must be wrong anyway as so far there's not a single person who agrees with me! 

[brentsg]

Point of view and all that, and I must be wrong anyway as so far there's not a single person who agrees with me!  

To quote a former coworker of mine, in his effort to square up a work-related disagreement...

"Hey listen, I really don't have any interest in arguing with you over this.  I just need you to understand that you're wrong."

[skykid]

"Hey listen, I really don't have any interest in arguing with you over this.  I just need you to understand that you're wrong."

I love it. That sounds like something I'd probably say tbh, such are my convictions.

[dcharlie]

For me, that's still Cave asking too much money

simple economics + supply/demand here though that negates this point.

At 20,000 yen (and 18,000 yen) all four signed/framed prints sold out. So , if anything, maybe they should have been a bit more expensive?

Again - i'm not even sure how many of these there are - could be hundreds, could be thousands, could be fifty. Or whether they will rerun the offer.

One thing i would say is - i have a Glados print that i took to a few places in TK to get framed. It's standard poster size and i was getting quoted WAY more than 20,000 yen to get it done, stupid prices at Loft with them quoting 80,000 for a simple glass front black frame. Whilst these frames are no where near that size, they are at least nice and come well packaged in a labelled box, with a nice yellow cover bag inside.

[dcharlie]

p.s. i bet you if i wanted to sell these on i could double my money at least. Not that i want to sell them on, but just saying.

[EOJ]

Signed whatever "things" can sell for crazy money (baseball cards, comics, cells, etc). I doubt they made a lot of those Cave signed prints, and now they're all gone. This stuff probably won't lose value, and likely will increase in value. So I don't see much point in complaining about the initial price. In the future, we may look back longingly on the 20K price of these as "a steal".