Most Difficult Cave Shooter

[supabok]

So far:
1) Mushihime Sama Futari - Ultra(1.0/1.1)
2) Pink Sweets
3a) DDP DOJ(white/black label)
3b) Ibara

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Since I'm new to the whole 360 2D shooting scene(like 2 months in), I was trying to get a feel for what Cave shooter most players consider difficult to easy.
In regards to ranking the shooter, I'd like to know, for other players, which shooter is most difficult to 1cc and which one is difficult to get a high score in.

For me, DDP DOJ is probably the most difficult at the moment because after 2 months of play I can manage to 1-4(which makes me feel lame)!
So here is my ranking from most difficult to slightly more difficult(360 only but PCB feedback is welcome!):

1) DDP DOJ
2) Espgaluda II
3) Ketsui
4) DDP DFK
5) Deathsmiles

cheers

[EOJ]

IMO Futari Ultra is the hardest 1 Loop shooter (1.0/1.01 Ultra is basically impossible - no one has 1CC'd either one), followed by Pink Sweets. DDPDOJ (original, not Black Label) is the hardest 2-Loop shooter.

[Shalashaska]

As far as straight survival, I'd have to agree with EOJ. Futari Ultra, Pink Sweets, and for me, Ibara (though I have only spent maybe 4 hours total with that game.) Actually Progear kicks my ass too though I have less time on that title than Ibara.

[skykid]

Yep, Futari Ultra for sure. Idiotically hard.
Pink Sweets I hear is a close second. Yagawa is a sadist, no doubt about it. 

[charlienash87]

so aside from the infinite lives trick in pink sweets, it's hard as balls is what i am to understand?

[cstarflare]

I would love to see pink sweet's 2nd loop in extend mode for comparison to doj

[EOJ]

I 2-ALL'd Pink Sweet's Extended mode. The first loop is slightly harder than regular PS. Still, I got the infinite lives trick triggered by the end of Stage 3, and cruised through the rest of the game.

Without the infinite lives trick, Extended mode is basically impossible. I recall reading a very skilled Japanese guy who could regularly 1CC the first loop with a good score without the infinite lives trick, but he said he couldn't get past stage 2-1 in Extended mode because the rank was too high and there was no way to lower it. This was after he played through the first loop with the lowest rank possible (suicides, no medals, no bombing, etc). He considered a 2-ALL of Extended mode completely impossible without the infinite lives trick.

[hipgnosis]

So in which level does Pink Sweets get impossible if played for survival only? Never tried the game but I'd like to see Stage 5 because of that awesome music.

[skykid]

So in which level does Pink Sweets get impossible if played for survival only? Never tried the game but I'd like to see Stage 5 because of that awesome music.

It sort of doesn't work that way in Yagawa games, you need to score to earn extends. Without the extends you're living dangerously and are unlikely to clear it, and considering dropping medals increases your rank you'll be finding his games toughening up no matter what.
Best thing to do is learn to score, earn the extend, suicide - that's your best chance at a survival based clear.

He is a sadist. The man has issues.

[kernow]

I thought lower medals meant lower rank, and chaining medals well would increase it. 

[hipgnosis]

It sort of doesn't work that way in Yagawa games, you need to score to earn extends. Without the extends you're living dangerously and are unlikely to clear it, and considering dropping medals increases your rank you'll be finding his games toughening up no matter what.
Best thing to do is learn to score, earn the extend, suicide - that's your best chance at a survival based clear.

He is a sadist. The man has issues.

Sounds pretty tough. Does the rank decrease if you suicide in PS though? If not that makes it even more sadistic. Oh well, maybe I'll be able see Stage 5 in the Arrange mode then.

[cstarflare]

my understanding is that letting extends drop off screen gives a bigger rank decrease than grabbing them and suiciding.

[brendz]

Surprised no one's mentioned DSMBL All 999. This mode is most difficultest Cave Ive ever played by far (can only beat 2 levels whilest bombing geting a horrible score).

[Medal]

my understanding is that letting extends drop off screen gives a bigger rank decrease than grabbing them and suiciding.

I don't know whether you guys are talking Pink Sweets or other Yagawa games, but this is definitely not true for Batrider and Bakraid. Dropping extends off the screen does absolutely nothing except lose you bombs and keep rank high.

I thought lower medals meant lower rank, and chaining medals well would increase it. 

Not in Garegga or Batrider. The lower value medals increase rank a lot higher than any of the others.

Can't wait for Pink Sweets

[EOJ]

It sort of doesn't work that way in Yagawa games, you need to score to earn extends. Without the extends you're living dangerously and are unlikely to clear it, and considering dropping medals increases your rank you'll be finding his games toughening up no matter what.
Best thing to do is learn to score, earn the extend, suicide - that's your best chance at a survival based clear.

Extends in PS are not score-based. You have to destroy 2500 destructible bullets and then an extend floats down. There are also a few fixed extends in the stages.

Trying to score in PS will just make the game ridiculously hard as suicides lower the rank very little, and there are not enough extends. If you want a pure survival 1CC, do not score at all (well, above the bare minimum), and play with 1 or zero lives in stock at all times. Pretty boring (and even with this it's still damn hard - keep in mind few people have cleared the game this way).

Best thing is to just learn the infinite lives trick, the game becomes a blast once you can do that.

[skykid]

It sort of doesn't work that way in Yagawa games, you need to score to earn extends. Without the extends you're living dangerously and are unlikely to clear it, and considering dropping medals increases your rank you'll be finding his games toughening up no matter what.
Best thing to do is learn to score, earn the extend, suicide - that's your best chance at a survival based clear.

Extends in PS are not score-based. You have to destroy 2500 destructible bullets and then an extend floats down. There are also a few fixed extends in the stages.

Trying to score in PS will just make the game ridiculously hard as suicides lower the rank very little, and there are not enough extends. If you want a pure survival 1CC, do not score at all (well, above the bare minimum), and play with 1 or zero lives in stock at all times. Pretty boring (and even with this it's still damn hard - keep in mind few people have cleared the game this way).

Best thing is to just learn the infinite lives trick, the game becomes a blast once you can do that.

Bloody hell, sounds nightmarish. I thought it was stupidly difficult when we had it in Casino (London) and I didn't even know how to score. Isn't the infinite lives thing a bit of a cop-out though, and does a version of the PCB exist that fixes this?

[Van_Artic]

Isn't the infinite lives thing a bit of a cop-out though, and does a version of the PCB exist that fixes this?

it's an intended feature, it's on every version of the PCB

[EOJ]

One version removed it (May 2006 version, very hard to find this one today).

[drunkninja]

It sort of doesn't work that way in Yagawa games, you need to score to earn extends. Without the extends you're living dangerously and are unlikely to clear it, and considering dropping medals increases your rank you'll be finding his games toughening up no matter what.
Best thing to do is learn to score, earn the extend, suicide - that's your best chance at a survival based clear.

Extends in PS are not score-based. You have to destroy 2500 destructible bullets and then an extend floats down. There are also a few fixed extends in the stages.

Trying to score in PS will just make the game ridiculously hard as suicides lower the rank very little, and there are not enough extends. If you want a pure survival 1CC, do not score at all (well, above the bare minimum), and play with 1 or zero lives in stock at all times. Pretty boring (and even with this it's still damn hard - keep in mind few people have cleared the game this way).

Best thing is to just learn the infinite lives trick, the game becomes a blast once you can do that.

Bloody hell, sounds nightmarish. I thought it was stupidly difficult when we had it in Casino (London) and I didn't even know how to score. Isn't the infinite lives thing a bit of a cop-out though, and does a version of the PCB exist that fixes this?

TBH, I kinda think the same thing.  I can certainly see why players take advantage of it, and it certainly takes skill to activate, but once you do, you pretty much get a free ride through the rest of the game, no?  Doesn't seem much different than just credit feeding except, well, you don't have to put another credit into the game and have your score reset.  Maybe I'll understand more once I actually get my hands on the game next month, though.

[EOJ]

The whole game is just a score attack mode.The milking tricks you can do with the infinite lives are crazy.

Trust me, it's fun. Doesn't feel like credit feeding at all. Triggering the infinite lives is one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in a Cave game.

[Dave_K.]

Isn't the infinite lives thing a bit of a cop-out though, and does a version of the PCB exist that fixes this?

Think of it as a reward for playing the game at maximum rank in the early levels.  It is by no means an easy feat or cop-out.  Without it, I can't see any western player ALLing it.