Author Topic: What defines being a good Cave player?  (Read 1676 times)

Offline Terramax

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What defines being a good Cave player?
« on: March 12, 2011, 09:45:36 AM »
Hey there,

I bought a 360 with Mushi Futari 7 days ago and have been playing the game to death. Today I've finally gotten to the last boss on original mode but I'm starting to feel a bit ashamed it's taken me this long to get up to this point.

Sorry if this topic has been raised before, but with Cave shmups in general, how long does it usually take people to complete the original modes and how do people here define a player as being either good or bad at Cave shooters (or even shooters in general)?

Offline Killer French Bread

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 09:50:52 AM »
You see skill is quite easily quantified in this genre: the high score.

Offline Terramax

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 09:58:07 AM »
I was expecting someone to say that. But then, you could get an amazing score on a shooter, but have spent the last 5 years solely playing that game in order to get to that level. Would that make you more skillful than someone who gets a relatively good score in a matter of a week or two, complete the game and then move straight onto the next shooter?

Offline HVL

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 12:29:39 PM »
Skill is something that cannot be really gauged. Of course you could go by high scores but there are several shortcomings to that, as pointed already.

My best piece of advice is to toss away the "I suck so much" mindset and simply have fun. The rest happens automatically.

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I bought a 360 with Mushi Futari 7 days ago and have been playing the game to death. Today I've finally gotten to the last boss on original mode but I'm starting to feel a bit ashamed it's taken me this long to get up to this point.

Man, you have played the game for a week. That is nothing. Also, I think people underrate the difficulty of Ver 1.5 Original, in fact I think BL Maniac is far easier than Ver 1.5 Original.

Offline njiska

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 02:13:30 PM »
Skill is something that cannot be really gauged. Of course you could go by high scores but there are several shortcomings to that, as pointed already.

My best piece of advice is to toss away the "I suck so much" mindset and simply have fun. The rest happens automatically.

Complete agree. Go at your own pace, set your own targets (score, survival, whatever) and just shoot for it. There are too many dick measuring contests going on between fans of this genre as it is.

As for the matter of skill, it's far more difficult to quantify than score, because to score well in one game does not mean you will in another. The only true way to look at your own skill is to evaluate how you're think you're doing compared to others in terms of the fundamentals. For example if you're good at say bullet herding in one game, you'll be good at it in others. That's a transferable skill. But it's all entirely subjective.
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Offline Plasmo

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 02:30:31 PM »
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I was expecting someone to say that. But then, you could get an amazing score on a shooter, but have spent the last 5 years solely playing that game in order to get to that level. Would that make you more skillful than someone who gets a relatively good score in a matter of a week or two, complete the game and then move straight onto the next shooter?

You're describing one and the same person. The one who gets an outstanding highscore after 5 years with one game usually has no problems to get quick 1ccs on other games. You can easily transfer basic dodging skills from one shmup to another.

Offline EOJ

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2011, 02:43:55 PM »
A good Cave player gets good scores in multiple Cave games. Simple as that. The better the scores, the better the player. That's why scores exist! They are the best measuring stick for skill with these games.
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Offline Terramax

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 02:50:10 PM »
Skill is something that cannot be really gauged. Of course you could go by high scores but there are several shortcomings to that, as pointed already.

My best piece of advice is to toss away the "I suck so much" mindset and simply have fun. The rest happens automatically.

Yep, this is what I'm trying to do. But as stated, I sometimes have those "I suck so much" moments. So I'm not the only one?

There are too many dick measuring contests going on between fans of this genre as it is.

Sorry, I hope my posts haven't come off as that.

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But it's all entirely subjective.

Guess it is. I'm quite interested to see people see it as the above.

Offline zlk

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 03:01:29 PM »
I am more impressed by someone who can finish a difficult game than by someone who can score high.  If both people can finish the game then score comes into consideration.

Offline EOJ

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 03:27:37 PM »
I am more impressed by someone who can finish a difficult game than by someone who can score high. 

Really? So you'd be more impressed with my 366mil 1CC with Asagi in Espgaluda 2 than with a guy who can get 600mil with Asagi, but ends his game at the last boss? I'd certainly be more impressed with the 600mil guy.
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Offline njiska

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 03:37:22 PM »
There are too many dick measuring contests going on between fans of this genre as it is.

Sorry, I hope my posts haven't come off as that.
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You don't. So don't worry. :)
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Offline EOJ

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 05:38:15 PM »
There are too many dick measuring contests going on between fans of this genre as it is.


Not sure what you are referring to here. Could you give some examples?

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Offline emphatic

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2011, 06:30:20 PM »
There are too many dick measuring contests going on between fans of this genre as it is.


Not sure what you are referring to here. Could you give some examples?

No pictures, please.  :lol:

Offline zlk

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2011, 07:01:24 PM »
I am more impressed by someone who can finish a difficult game than by someone who can score high. 

Really? So you'd be more impressed with my 366mil 1CC with Asagi in Espgaluda 2 than with a guy who can get 600mil with Asagi, but ends his game at the last boss? I'd certainly be more impressed with the 600mil guy.

Honestly, yes.  Beating the last attack of the last boss in a cave games is sometimes 20% of the journey.  For me I can get to the last boss on quite a few games but die there.  I don't even think about my score unless I finish the game. 

Offline darkidol

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2011, 07:44:48 PM »
I am more impressed by someone who can finish a difficult game than by someone who can score high. 

Really? So you'd be more impressed with my 366mil 1CC with Asagi in Espgaluda 2 than with a guy who can get 600mil with Asagi, but ends his game at the last boss? I'd certainly be more impressed with the 600mil guy.

Honestly, yes.  Beating the last attack of the last boss in a cave games is sometimes 20% of the journey.  For me I can get to the last boss on quite a few games but die there.  I don't even think about my score unless I finish the game. 

I used to be the same a couple years ago (playing ikaruga) but have veered so far in the opposite direction since then I literally play each time to nudge my personal high score and little else.  Maybe a certain experience with a certain game can make one this way?  One you just get a knack for scoring in.

Skill is something that cannot be really gauged. Of course you could go by high scores but there are several shortcomings to that, as pointed already.

My best piece of advice is to toss away the "I suck so much" mindset and simply have fun. The rest happens automatically.

Quote
I bought a 360 with Mushi Futari 7 days ago and have been playing the game to death. Today I've finally gotten to the last boss on original mode but I'm starting to feel a bit ashamed it's taken me this long to get up to this point.

Man, you have played the game for a week. That is nothing. Also, I think people underrate the difficulty of Ver 1.5 Original, in fact I think BL Maniac is far easier than Ver 1.5 Original.

Would like to reiterate this post. 

I also think there are good arguments for (a person's spectrum of) scores being the best barometer - for Cave games - of _skill_.  Trying to horde bombs for a bonus as things are starting to get hairy, or nudging too far out of place and finding yourself in an ever ominous position for that incoming pattern... that situation can force you to 'wing it' and, for me personally, develops confidence and can also, dare I say, develop skill - better future placement in the first place; but also more calmness and focus when out of place in a future credit.

People definitely underrate the difficulty of MF Ver 1.5 Original, either that or there's some (poisonous, IMO) presumption out there that it's 'easy mode' because the bullet patterns are not as dense.  It should be called 'maniac mode' the way you have to play it to get a high score.

It's also very hard playing stage 4 while it's freezing like mad.  Have never became annoyed with this game until recently when every time - after getting past stage 3 time after time unscathed! - I have major trouble trying to hold the rhythm of my sweeping.  Off-topic but it happened, yet again, earlier today and I'm still smarting.  :laugh:

Offline ookitarepanda

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2011, 08:55:30 PM »
I once heard that certain scores would not be published (arcadia, etc) unless they were an all-clear. Is this true?

Offline EOJ

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2011, 08:58:48 PM »
Arcadia only lists 1CC scores UNLESS no 1CC scores are submitted. In which case the score that reached the furthest stage is marked the top score.
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Offline Terramax

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2011, 06:24:47 AM »
For me I can get to the last boss on quite a few games but die there.  I don't even think about my score unless I finish the game. 

Reminds me of Gigawing.

It's also very hard playing stage 4 while it's freezing like mad.  Have never became annoyed with this game until recently when every time - after getting past stage 3 time after time unscathed! - I have major trouble trying to hold the rhythm of my sweeping.  Off-topic but it happened, yet again, earlier today and I'm still smarting.  :laugh:

That's strange. For me it's the level 3 I've had the most problems on. I die less on LV4 and 5 than the 3rd one.

Offline skykid

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Re: What defines being a good Cave player?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2011, 08:32:47 PM »
A good Cave player gets good scores in multiple Cave games. Simple as that. The better the scores, the better the player. That's why scores exist! They are the best measuring stick for skill with these games.

I'd go with this.

You have done well in terms of learning the game to get to the last boss in just a week though - but then I don't know how many hours of play you put in (that's directed at the OP, in case anyone was wondering.  ;))
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 08:52:32 PM by skykid »
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