Author Topic: New to the SHMUP scene!  (Read 2466 times)

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
New to the SHMUP scene!
« on: April 05, 2011, 12:35:01 AM »
Hello all,

Where to start? I suppose right at the beginning? I never really liked shooters too much; most I ever played were the side scrolling kind. Back on the Megadrive, I was more interested in Sonic and other platformers. Then when I got into Dreamcast collecting, I picked up Ikaruga and a few other Japanese exclusives like Trigger Heart Exelica. When I got my xbox 360 a few years ago (in the UK), I also downloaded Trigger Heart and played it a little, along with another favourite of mine, Rez. Then more and more time was taken up with games like NHL and CoD.

Three months ago I left the UK and moved to Japan. Two weeks ago I bought an xbox360 to accompany my PS3 as there seemed to be more Japan-only games that might interest me on the 360 than the PS3.

Lurked here only for a couple of days as I trawl the net for information on a game I bought recently, DDPDFK1.5.



I picked up the limited edition and was instantly hooked. Then last weekend I went shopping again...



and now I am trying to choose which arcade stick to go for, though the Hori Real Arcade Pro VX-SA seems to be decent and I liked the stick movement.

I am pretty new to shooters and don't know much about "loops" and a few other bits of terminology. I would love to compete or put my scores into the userlists, or something, and a couple of my scores can be seen here.

The other games I want to pick up are Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label EX on the 360 (is it good?) and Deathsmiles II... I am a sucker for the limited editions. I have the downloaded Mushihimesama 1.01 version that came with my LE box and also the faceplate for Espgaluda II.

I can't believe how great these games are and it's a real pleasure to get into something like this from scratch.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to participating on the forums as much as possible.

SH4R4KU

Offline Special World

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 160
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 12:48:43 AM »
Make sure to pick up Ketsui X while you're at it! Download Futari Black Label, too, it's my favorite Cave release.

Offline Aliquantic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 02:02:11 AM »
Hi and welcome :)

The VX-SA stick uses Sanwa components, which tends to be more popular for fighting games, as opposed to Seimitsu, which is more "traditional" for STGs. The two brands feel a bit different and it's hard to say which one you'll prefer, though, but you should have little trouble finding a Seimitsu stick to try out! (Hori has made a VX-SE too but it's a lot rarer and an Amazon.co.jp exclusive IIRC, and there's always the older EX-SA and EX-SE)

Daioujou BL EX is a harder version of Daifukkatsu with the same sort of strict chaining and no bullet cancelling, and definitely worth it if you appreciate Daifukkatsu 1.5.

Offline njiska

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 255
    • Njiska's Blog
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 12:06:32 PM »
Nice Noel you've got there. I see it's not just the gratuitous Cave LE's that you've been picking up.

Out of curiosity how much did the Deathsmiles LE set you back?
Hey look I have a crappy blog -- Njiska v3

DOJ - Pride of wankers and elitists everywhere!

Offline sh00g

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Dynamite planted.
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 02:01:43 PM »
Yeah, its hard to say what you'd like as far as a stick goes. LS-32 seems to be what most would consider pretty standard fair with shmups. I myself have a few arcade sticks. The sanwa, the LS-32, and then a few different models that ly there in. I tend to switch it up a little so I wont get into a placebo like state / grass is greener vibe.

I wish I got the LE of futari.  :'(

Offline Killer French Bread

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 02:32:03 PM »
Deathsmiles 2 is a really nice game. I think it's probably best to play some of the cool stuff you've already bought than be concentrating so much on what to get next though. Shoot 'em ups are are best appreciated one at a time or you can find it hard to get that good at them.

Offline insigniadeck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • New Shumps Fan
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 02:34:11 PM »
im new here too mate,its cool that ur now based in japan it makes it easier for you to hunt those awesome cave games without importing headache.

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 07:38:32 PM »
Make sure to pick up Ketsui X while you're at it! Download Futari Black Label, too, it's my favorite Cave release.

Thanks for the tip! Ketsui seems to be held in really high regard, so I will definitely be picking it up.

Hi and welcome :)

The VX-SA stick uses Sanwa components, which tends to be more popular for fighting games, as opposed to Seimitsu, which is more "traditional" for STGs. The two brands feel a bit different and it's hard to say which one you'll prefer, though, but you should have little trouble finding a Seimitsu stick to try out! (Hori has made a VX-SE too but it's a lot rarer and an Amazon.co.jp exclusive IIRC, and there's always the older EX-SA and EX-SE)

Daioujou BL EX is a harder version of Daifukkatsu with the same sort of strict chaining and no bullet cancelling, and definitely worth it if you appreciate Daifukkatsu 1.5.

Thanks for the information. I might well try and pick up the VX-SE as it looks pretty bad ass! I was never really any good with a stick but it's something I just want to get into. Can always sell the stick if I end up being rubbish with it! Daioujou artwork always looked really cool. The xbox 360 black label EX edition looked pretty awesome and I will hunt it down.

Nice Noel you've got there. I see it's not just the gratuitous Cave LE's that you've been picking up.

Out of curiosity how much did the Deathsmiles LE set you back?

Thanks! I love my limited editions :) I got Deathsmiles LE for about ?4000 or thereabouts... I am into most arcade games... racing and fighting too. I'm relatively new to the Shmup scene, though I do have quite a few of them on Dreamcast, I never really played them so much (yet).

Yeah, its hard to say what you'd like as far as a stick goes...
I wish I got the LE of futari.  :'(

Thanks for the information! The LE futari is pretty nice... I downloaded 1.01 and had a blast on it (can't tell a difference yet) and the soundtrack is lovely!

I think it's probably best to play some of the cool stuff you've already bought than be concentrating so much on what to get next though. Shoot 'em ups are are best appreciated one at a time or you can find it hard to get that good at them.

Well, my plan was to buy any decent looking ones/Japan only releases when I saw them in the shops as I would hate to miss out (like the Futari LE). I've had a quick blast on each, but I am concentrating on alternating between DFK1.5 and DFKBL at the moment. Not sure what I will move onto next, but I won't until I am bored... which could be a looooong time!

I just want them all really, then I won't miss out and can give each its own dedicated time :)

im new here too mate,its cool that ur now based in japan it makes it easier for you to hunt those awesome cave games without importing headache.

Welcome to you too! I saw your thread :) Being here in Japan does make it a lot easier yes, as the games are actually in the shops. The internet's helped the importing scene a lot, but there's a finally a chance for me to buy something decent on release day!

Offline Van_Artic

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 84
  • In clashes we trust
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 07:48:07 PM »
welcome aboard mate

(yeah, i'm that guy from tumblr lol)

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2011, 11:44:40 AM »
I got a nice arcade stick to make everything that little bit more authentic and get into the SHMUP scene good and proper.

I wonder, what are the correct button layouts for using an arcade stick? The pad controls seem to "just work" but having RT in use on the arcade stick didn't seem to make much sense at all... I'd really like to know how it works in the arcades or what other people here do... I had such a bad run tonight I don't know if it's just tiredness or me being crap with a stick :(

welcome aboard mate

(yeah, i'm that guy from tumblr lol)

Hey man :)

Offline Shalashaska

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 286
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2011, 04:30:57 PM »
Keep practicing with the stick (which one did you get?) as it'll take a bit to get used to. I was always a gamepad user myself but once you get used to a good stick you'll be happy you got one. It's sort of like switching from a pad to keyboard and mouse in FPS games. I'm a little late but welcome to the community!  :righton:

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2011, 08:55:14 PM »
Keep practicing with the stick (which one did you get?) as it'll take a bit to get used to. I was always a gamepad user myself but once you get used to a good stick you'll be happy you got one. It's sort of like switching from a pad to keyboard and mouse in FPS games. I'm a little late but welcome to the community!  :righton:

I got this one (click to go to gallery):



My main question is; should I be changing the button config... and if so... to what?

Offline Special World

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 160
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2011, 10:19:14 PM »
As a general rule, you'll probably want to use the bottom (left) row of three for shooting games. Most games operate like so:

(laser) (bomb) (rapid)

Things like Deathsmiles and DFK work a little differently, though, at least when I'm playing them.

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2011, 10:59:52 PM »
As a general rule, you'll probably want to use the bottom (left) row of three for shooting games. Most games operate like so:

(laser) (bomb) (rapid)

Things like Deathsmiles and DFK work a little differently, though, at least when I'm playing them.

Thanks! I've set up DFK now to use top left 3 as you ordered them, with hyper at the bottom left.

Offline drunkninja

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 10:00:38 PM »
Yeah, I always use the top 3 buttons on my sticks, since it gives me more room to rest my hand on the stick than the bottom 3.  For 4 button games such as DFK, I use the bottom-left button as well.



Offline insigniadeck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • New Shumps Fan
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2011, 06:21:11 AM »
nice stick,im gonna get 1 soon yet havent decided what type since i have no experience in arcade stick.since both us are new here which game do u enjoy the most out of the collection that u have?i only got 3 games for now thought,deathsmiles,dai ou jou and just arrived my futari .15.so which games is to ur liking so far?

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2011, 10:36:22 AM »
so which games is to ur liking so far?

At the moment, I am almost only playing DFK1.5 xbox 360 mode... just getting used to the stick. I want to get good at that before moving to anything else... I have those other games but I won't touch them for a while I think :)

Offline ratikal

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2011, 03:31:08 PM »
You might want to try out a pad too. The SF Fight Pads look like they could be decent. I personally use a Sega Saturn controller on my X360. The transition to that from a stick (I had a HORI EX-SE, used it for 3 months) was incredible. Everything felt so precise and everything just looked easier to go through.

To quote some dude on IRC, if your under 25, you might just be a pad warrior by heart.

Offline Killer French Bread

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2011, 05:30:27 PM »
Yeah if you don't even have any experience of using a stick (does that mean you've never been in an arcade!?) I don't see the obsession over getting one. They're cool and good if you are used to them, but by no means necessary. You might not even like it.

If you are desperate for the authenticity of it I can understand that. And since SF4 the internet in general knows the kudos of getting one. These days it's as if taking delivery of a massive slab of a stick is the console gaming equivalent of killing a deer and hauling it back to the cave over your shoulder - hardcore credentials have been proven.

BTW, where do you get these 360 Saturn pads? That sounds great. I can't always be arsed to drag a stick out for a quick credit or two, so a good pad is ideal.

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 09:06:23 PM »
You might want to try out a pad too. The SF Fight Pads look like they could be decent. I personally use a Sega Saturn controller on my X360. The transition to that from a stick (I had a HORI EX-SE, used it for 3 months) was incredible. Everything felt so precise and everything just looked easier to go through.

To quote some dude on IRC, if your under 25, you might just be a pad warrior by heart.

I have a USB saturn pad, which doesn't work with the XBOX 360. To be honest, I found the XBOX 360 Analogue stick to be just fine; my main difficulty was changing from the pad buttons to the stick layout. It's worth mentioning that whilst I am [comparatively] new to sticks, I am also new to shmups. I played DFK for two weeks before getting the stick, but now I am managing to beat most of the scores I set with the pad, so that's good.

Yeah if you don't even have any experience of using a stick (does that mean you've never been in an arcade!?) I don't see the obsession over getting one. They're cool and good if you are used to them, but by no means necessary. You might not even like it.

If you are desperate for the authenticity of it I can understand that. And since SF4 the internet in general knows the kudos of getting one. These days it's as if taking delivery of a massive slab of a stick is the console gaming equivalent of killing a deer and hauling it back to the cave over your shoulder - hardcore credentials have been proven.

I bolded the nice pun there :)

I suppose, I really wanted to get into shooters... and I also really want to make the most of being here in Japan. These games can't really be bought over the shelf in the UK, and that arcade stick is an amazon.jp exclusive. I'll use all this kit, but I want to get all the things that I can't really get when I am back in the UK. I didn't get it to make up for any shortfall of the phallic kind, but rather to really play these games as they were designed.

Offline Chempop

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 50
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2011, 01:34:05 AM »
Welcome to the world of STG's!  Nice collection so far, Don't forget Dodonpachi DOJ blex, it might look a tad primitive compared to the newer titles, but it's one of the most beloved CAVE games ever.  Also, Guwange is out on XBLA, good luck with the confusing menus on that one ;)

Button layout is an interesting topic,  as mentioned it typically goes
Shot-bomb-rapid

But I actually prefer things to be closer together (I have small hands), so I use a triangular formation

Bomb
Shot-rapid

On games with an 4th button (DFK and Galuda) it changes based on how quickly I want to respond so I set them to
(galuda)
Kakusei
Shot-rapid-shield

And
(dfk)
Bomb
Shot-rapid-hyper

In deathsmiles I play the best using only three buttons with tapping and holding buttons to change shots, pressing both for lock-on and fever mode. 

Bomb
Left shot-right shot

Experiment and see what feels right to you, I hope those layouts give you some insight.

Offline SH4R4KU

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Maniac Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New to the SHMUP scene!
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2011, 03:47:53 AM »
Welcome to the world of STG's!  Nice collection so far, Don't forget Dodonpachi DOJ blex, it might look a tad primitive compared to the newer titles, but it's one of the most beloved CAVE games ever.  Also, Guwange is out on XBLA, good luck with the confusing menus on that one ;)

Thanks! I definitely want to pick up DOG BLEX; I've seen it in a couple of shops and liked the look of it. I just love the whole dodonpachi series so far, and the artwork and general impression of the game is very positive.

Experiment and see what feels right to you, I hope those layouts give you some insight.

Thanks a lot for your input! I am still tweaking with my setup but I think I've found Shot,Bomb,Rapid to work really well, with the Hyper beneath "shot". Should make life easier when I find the game in an arcade too!