Author Topic: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy  (Read 3049 times)

Offline Kain Garland

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Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« on: May 16, 2011, 12:01:26 PM »
Hello guys.

I'm just writting to voice my concern of releasing an import download game, the game in question is Deathsmiles 2 for the Xbox 360, many gamers do not like the idea of having a download only game as we like to be able to physically hold our games in our hands, some of us are collectionist some are not, However I feel its a disservice to Cave fan only to release the game as download when so many even go as far as importing CAVE games.

So please fans of CAVE games, make your voice be heard and let CAVE know that we want disc release of their games in America.

Regards.
Kain Garland

Offline Thjodbjorn

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 12:05:56 PM »
I'd rather have any release at all. Disc would be ideal, but I'll take a digital download over nothing.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 12:10:56 PM »
I'd rather not support companies that do this, we are only just encouraging them not to do a proper release.

in 10 years you will love Deathsmiles 1 alot more than Deathsmiles 2 as you will be able to hold your copy of deathsmiles 1 and even have fonder memories of it, while deathsmiles 2 will be probably forgotten in a sea of downloaded games in your HDD if you still even have it.

Fans, suppport the cause, we must tell Cave that we want a disc release (with english text).

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 12:17:33 PM »
There's a very good reason why they aren't releasing it at retail outside Japan - the numbers just aren't there to support it.  You can guarantee that this has been done for financial reasons only.  They're not going to suddenly revert back to retail if you don't buy the download releases - they just won't bother releasing games in your territory any more.  Seems daft to cut your nose off to spite your face.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 12:26:09 PM »
If we show them we aren't interested in download versions of the game, yes they will and if they don't its better to just import the japanese version of the game, its not like they did anything extra for the download version.

CAVE should just release all their games region free as they don't intend to do proper releases themselves.

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 12:37:34 PM »
If we show them we aren't interested in download versions of the game

Most people will just be glad that such a niche company is taking an interest in their foreign fans.  You're just pissing in the wind here.  If you're that bothered about the games you'd have already bought a J360.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 12:44:03 PM »
Obviously not as I'm a fan and I want a proper release, haven't you read other forums with the news about the release of this game?

Other people have posted the same No Disc No Buy thingy, so I know I'm not alone in this, I just want to make CAVE know for sure that, they wont get more sales due to this download only release.

Voice your thought people, let CAVE know.

Offline Special World

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2011, 12:48:05 PM »
Actually, they have shown pretty well that they would not. Cave has only shown a cursory interest in the western market so far, and the only title that's been localized so far has been Deathsmiles. Now, you're probably saying "obviously Deathsmiles IIX is the clear choice," but honestly, I feel that releasing it retail as anything more than a budget title would hurt Cave's image, rather than help it. Can you imagine the kind of thrashing modern gamers would give those graphics? Hell, the a lot of the people HERE refuse to play it because it's so ugly. Furthermore, they probably weren't contacted by anybody to localize it in the west, so they went ahead and gave gamers the next best thing. As far as I've heard, DSIIX will only work on US consoles anyhow, giving Rising Star Games (the only company who might be interested) a chance to localize it in Europe.

As for your statement that "it's better to import the game," maybe you should just do that. It's not like Cave put a gun to your head by releasing this on GoD. There are still disc copies available. I have no idea why you're complaining when you've reached such a simple conclusion.

If you're afraid they'll release their back catalog as downloads, it's either that or nothing at all. I could conceivably see them packing a ton of their older games together in a compilation package, but this would definitely run the risk of allowing shoddy ports. Cave doesn't have the best reputation for accuracy and options when it comes to their full ports, so I don't think a compilation would treat these games well at all. I'd love to see it, but I don't think there's any chance. So if you boycott all of Cave's download titles, know you're boycotting ever getting 360 versions of Esp, Mushi, Ra.De, Dangun, etc.

As for making their games region free, they've started doing this for games that they bet won't be localized. Right now, I think their decision to keep Akai Katana is a good one for Cave, and possibly even gamers. If there's any game that looks like it can ride Deathsmiles' coattails into extra Cave exposure to the west, this looks to be it. Full HD, gorgeous graphics, multiple modes, and what looks to be a very nice, functional menu system. Localizing DSIIX would only hurt Cave, making them seem like a one-trick pony that can't even definitively trump its own trick. Akai Katana would show gamers the next step for Cave, whether or not it turns out to be better than Deathsmiles.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2011, 12:56:58 PM »
I know you can import many of their titles, and that is preferable than having download only games that arent even translated into english.

believe it or not shmups are one of the most inexpensive games to make, I dont mind paying 60 dollars for them, some people will though but paying 30 dollars for digital only version of the game should be considered a ripoff when a disc release exists.

CAVE has received so many e-mail from fans that they started releasing games as region free, thanks to fans voicing their opinions, it doesn't help that you try to defend their posture and just bend over to their decisions, we need to make it clear that we want a disc release or nothing (just keep making them region free)

heck the shmup market has always been niche, but that doesnt stop other companies from releasing Raiden Fighter Aces, Deathsmiles 1 and Otomedius Excellent in disc form over here do they? hell the genre seems to sell well enough to support itself and other companies are just making new games of this type to release on this console.

Stop trying to defend them, you don't know their economic situation and neither do I, but I would really love to hear them talk about this, and what are their plans, if they plan on just releasing download games of their already released disc based games then I want them to know they wont have my support and maybe other people as well.

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 01:00:07 PM »
haven't you read other forums with the news about the release of this game?

I have, and the number of people who say they're concerned about it being download-only can be counted on one hand.  Even fewer digits required when counting the number of people saying they're going to boycott it.

I just want to make CAVE know for sure that, they wont get more sales due to this download only release.

Conversely, many more people might be buying it who wouldn't have ordinarily bought it at full price from a shop.

Offline StarCreator

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2011, 01:01:07 PM »
Let's put it this way: if disc releases are so profitable, why are they even considering this business model?

For it to have gotten to this point, I think it's a fair assumption that this decision has been made because other distribution methods have proven inadequate.  And that leads to the further assumption that if this doesn't do well, it's more likely future releases will simply not exist rather than return to an unprofitable distribution method.

It sounds like you've already made your decision.  But I think trying to convince others to do the same is irresponsible if your goal is more overseas releases from Cave in the future.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 01:05:00 PM »
you think casual people will find this in the Games on Demand store and say ohhh 30 bucks, I'll buy it.

it will probably be as many people as the ones you say arent going to buy the game.

These games are for the shmups fans, and those fans follow these companies releases, these companies are able to live thanks to their fans and if they piss them off well .... it could get ugly.

why would they consider this business model? easy cause they don't have to do anything, just pay a feee to MS for each sold copy and thats it, they don't even have to translate the game and gamers get nothing but a license of a digital download, which means you don't even own the game you paid for.

Offline StarCreator

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2011, 01:08:58 PM »
you think casual people will find this in the Games on Demand store and say ohhh 30 bucks, I'll buy it.

Of course not; stuff like this depends on word of mouth.  Of the opposite variety of what you're providing here.

These games are for the shmups fans, and those fans follow these companies releases, these companies are able to live thanks to their fans and if they piss them off well .... it could get ugly.

I can honestly say I'm not pissed off in the slightest about this.  Speak for yourself.  Don't put words in "shmups fans"'s mouths.

why would they consider this business model? easy cause they don't have to do anything, just pay a feee to MS for each sold copy and thats it, they don't even have to translate the game and gamers get nothing but a license of a digital download, which means you don't even own the game you paid for.

I'm pretty sure if you actually read the manuals for disc releases, they say you don't actually own the game you paid for in that case either.  The distribution method doesn't change that.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2011, 01:15:41 PM »
because you are all of shmups fans right??? or how should I refer to them, people who like shmups?

anyway, I do read manual thus 1 of the reason I like retail games, I may not own the code, but I do own the media the code was printed on :) so you could say that If I decided to later sell it I can as it is a recognised media release, unlike for example you trying to sell your digital copy which you can't unless you want to part with your hard drive and account details.

lets say that my Zelda 2 cartridge is probably worth alot more than the one they sell in the Wii store (if they even do sell it) I dont know cause I dont currently have a Wii.

and Its not about being able to resell, I have plenty of old games, I just want to have physical evidence of owning something.

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2011, 01:18:01 PM »
you think casual people will find this in the Games on Demand store and say ohhh 30 bucks, I'll buy it.

No, I think people with a passing interest in shmups might buy it, not casuals in general.  When they see that they can get a game for $30 that previously cost over double that in another country, I think most people will see it as a bit of a bargain.

gamers get nothing but a license of a digital download, which means you don't even own the game you paid for.

You can copy the game from your HDD to a USB stick.  There you go - a physical copy that you can hold in your hands.  Even if Microsoft's servers are permanantly closed, you will still have your copy, that you're able to make backups of, legally.  You can't do that with discs.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2011, 01:21:29 PM »
too bad if your Xbox dies you wont be able to play it anymore, even if you got a new xbox :(

Offline Special World

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2011, 01:27:19 PM »
I know you can import many of their titles, and that is preferable than having download only games that arent even translated into english.

Only to some people. Do you really think everyone prefers buying a $250 gaming console so they can buy a handful of $80 games? I did, and I don't regret my decision at all, but that's because I had the disposable cash at the time and I love these games. It is a luxury that some people don't have. That's like saying "Why would I buy Radiant Silvergun on XBLA when I could import a Saturn and buy a disc copy for $200?"

believe it or not shmups are one of the most inexpensive games to make, I dont mind paying 60 dollars for them, some people will though but paying 30 dollars for digital only version of the game should be considered a ripoff when a disc release exists.

You don't mind paying $60, but some people might. Why does the incidence of a disc release existing suddenly make a $30 download a ripoff? It's not like you can buy the retail version for $30; there's a clear price difference.

CAVE has received so many e-mail from fans that they started releasing games as region free, thanks to fans voicing their opinions, it doesn't help that you try to defend their posture and just bend over to their decisions, we need to make it clear that we want a disc release or nothing (just keep making them region free)

Even if they made all future games region free, there'd still be an empty space in your collection where those J only games go. It would be an extremely bad move for Cave to go back and localize all those games, if they even could localize all of them. I love Cave as much as anybody, and this recent influx of games is almost too much for me, even. I have a disc release. I have the Japanese copy. I am not saying that I wouldn't want all future titles to be region-free, but I also DO NOT SUPPORT boycotting Cave's downloads. They are doing what they need to in order to stay afloat financially, and I wish they'd release more games over download distribution. Yes, I'd probably prefer them to put every single one of their older games in one massive collection, but I find that highly unlikely. I think it would be a good way for them to break into the western market, but then after that, people would complain "oh we got 6 shooters in one package a year ago, now you're just giving us one?"

heck the shmup market has always been niche, but that doesnt stop other companies from releasing Raiden Fighter Aces, Deathsmiles 1 and Otomedius Excellent in disc form over here do they? hell the genre seems to sell well enough to support itself and other companies are just making new games of this type to release on this console.


I don't know how many copies Deathsmiles sold, but Aksys stated that they had no plans to localize any more shooters, so I can imagine that it didn't sell amazingly. If it did, I'm sure that they would have jumped on more of Cave's games.

Stop trying to defend them, you don't know their economic situation and neither do I, but I would really love to hear them talk about this, and what are their plans, if they plan on just releasing download games of their already released disc based games then I want them to know they wont have my support and maybe other people as well.

They're the one company whose games I can always look forward to. It's extremely hard for me to find games I truly love anymore. Cave gave me Futari, perhaps my favorite game of all time. I certainly will defend them. I'm not emotionally invested in the company or anything, at best they're still in it for profit and at worst they may be xenophobic, but I do want them to survive and continue making great games. Localizing Deathsmiles IIX would likely jeopardize that.

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2011, 01:36:05 PM »
Boycotting i just so dumb.  They're making an effort to get previously very expensive games to you, for a fraction of the price, and this is how you decide to repay them?  Sad.  It should always be about the games, not some stupid plastic disc.

Offline Kain Garland

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2011, 01:44:11 PM »
good for you :)  I don't have a japanese Xbox but I still wont support CAVE download games when the game was released in disc form.

btw, I never said they should re-release all their games as region free, just make the new ones region free like they have started doing, thats a smart move.

I say its a ripoff cause, they arent expensive to make at all, they arent spending on translation, nor discs, packaging, promoting etc. and it still costs alot, check out Trouble Witches NEO, that games offers alot and is only 800 MS points.

I'm not against all downloadable games, only against the ones that were released on disc in the current console, like Arcana Heart 3 and now Deathsmiles 2.

I will buy Radiant Sivergun as download since this game wasn't release on disc form on the 360, even though I do have Saturn.

you know, part of the problem with deathsmiles 1 was the promoting issue, did you see how Aksys promoted both Deathsmiles and Record of Agaresth wars? they made you feel like a pervert for being interested in those games.
---------------------------
It's all about the games I know, but I also have some self restraint and will to discuss and try to get a better option, you all know that if given the chance to get a disc version you would all jump on it, if so, then why feel happy so quick? why not try to fight for the better option?, by not doing so, you are not really showing a love for the game, by criticizing it (i know I spelt it wrong, english is not my main language) to help improve it you really show you are concerned for the quality of their product.

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2011, 02:03:45 PM »
you all know that if given the chance to get a disc version you would all jump on it

Not me.  I'd gladly pay *more* for a day 1 GoD release.

Offline Thjodbjorn

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2011, 02:13:50 PM »
Kain, do you know who you speak for? Kain. That's it. You would do well to not speak for the rest of us, given the wide range of opinions.

Do you know what the first thing I do with an xbox 360 game is? I install it to my HDD. The only purpose the disc serves after that is to allow me to play it off of my HDD. I don't extrapolate from this that this is what all "shmups fans" do. It is what I do. If more people do it, that's fine. If more people play off of their discs, that's fine, too.

But you know what I care most about? That we're given a chance to play these games in the first place. I own DSII on the Japanese 360. I will by purchasing this as a message to Cave that I support their efforts, and will continue to do so.

Whether or not the game is a disc or comes on a USB drive, or is purely DL is not an issue to me. In fact, with DDP DFK Black Label, I was a bit annoyed that Arrange was a disc-only release. I would love for that to have been DLC as well, and play all the different versions of DFK in one place.

Also, what you said about it only being playable on the original xbox 360 you DL it on is wrong. You can buy a new xbox, and transfer the licenses so that they behave as if that one was the first machine on which it was installed.

Offline brentsg

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2011, 02:21:34 PM »
I won't be buying this simply because I own the Japanese disk release, but I would buy it otherwise.  Would I prefer a disk, sure.. but I don't think it's realistic to expect one in this case.

Heck, I'd buy the PCB if it hadn't been released on a terrible Windows thing.

Offline HVL

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2011, 02:24:50 PM »
I won't be buying this simply because I own the Japanese disk release, but I would buy it otherwise.  Would I prefer a disk, sure.. but I don't think it's realistic to expect one in this case.

This. Stop being greedy and be glad you're getting anything at all.

You'll miss out on a great game, that's too bad.

Offline ookitarepanda

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2011, 02:33:45 PM »
Did you create an account here just to bitch about Cave releasing a game worldwide?

Like people have said, if you want the physical copy, go buy one. It's that easy.

And if you want Cave to make more games, maybe you should support them. Refusing to give money to the company in pretty much the most direct way possible (since retail hardly gives a fair percentage) says to them that you don't care about their games. And then they won't care about you. And even if we all banded together and asked Cave for a disc release of Deathsmiles IIx, they certainly wouldn't do it now that the game is coming out tomorrow.

My other question is, did you buy Guwange on XBL? Or did you create an account here then to bitch about that being download only, even though there is a physical version of it?

If you love Cave so much and want them to succeed, but don't want to pay $30 for a full game, go to their online store and buy all of their illustrated prints. Or buy some pcb kits or something.

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2011, 05:06:45 PM »
I think I'm closer to no cart no buy. In other words finish the game and fix the bugs first before selling. What's it going to be like in a few years when the next generation consoles are out and the DLC isn't available for these games anymore and you need to install a new hard drive or buy used discs? Enjoy it while it lasts.

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2011, 05:15:27 PM »
I would bet my whole game collection that any future Microsoft console will be 100% backwards compatible.  There's absolutely no way they will dump their biggest gaming asset and biggest contribution to modern gaming, namely XBox Live and all the associated trimmings like games and other DLC.  Yeah, I know they got burnt once in the transition between the Xbox and Xbox 360, but it won't happen again.

Offline Thjodbjorn

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2011, 05:21:30 PM »
Plus, I was able to DL the Splinter Cell DLC from the original Xbox games on my 360.

Offline lam47

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2011, 05:54:08 PM »
My friend would kill to have any kind of release here in the UK. He can't afford a Japanese XBOX. He has been loving the very cheap UK release of DS1. Even with DS1 being sold for ?2 at GAME for over a week I bet the sales figures are not great.
My only worry is what will happen when the servers go down for the beloved old 360. Will Microsoft allow us to have licence to use the games? And then what if your HD fails. I shudder to think! These are the reasons I prefer physical games. But I will buy them however they come!

Offline bcass

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2011, 06:14:18 PM »
Microsoft aren't going anywhere in a hurry.  All this talk of not being able to validate licenses in the future is a complete misnomer.  Microsoft have a rich history of discontinuing products, and guess what - you can still find all the required support files (and methods of security validation/verification) online for those products.

Offline cstle

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Re: Deathsmiles 2 in USA - No Disc No Buy
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2011, 07:07:18 PM »
If you want a disc, get a J360 and import the JP disc. Otherwise, deal with it and take what you can get.

Aksys has stated that the Deathsmiles sales didn't meet their expectations and judging by how Deathsmiles is already in bargain bins for the equivalent of a few bucks in the UK, I'm guessing we're not getting another localized Cave game any time soon in any region.

I don't even like DD, but as a Cave fan I realize that this is probably the only way I'll see their non-regionfree games on my US console and will be purchasing it day one.