Author Topic: Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]  (Read 26742 times)

Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2008, 04:26:32 AM »
Quote
Maybe, but they seem to get their info straight from Japanese sources in most instances.
In *most* instances it's the same sources we use.  I met their main import guy ages ago... back when I was carefree and smoked tons of cigarettes.  They mainly scour Japanese sites, blogs, and magazines.  Pretty shameless, actually.  I remember when GameWave (now Famitsu Wave) would put out a new DVD... they would rip it and post it on the site within hours.

Offline EOJ

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #91 on: March 11, 2008, 04:29:23 AM »
Wow, thanks for the info. I won't be citing any more of their "news".
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sven666

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #92 on: March 11, 2008, 06:58:23 AM »
why would it be anything but MAME based?

afaik PGM games run pretty well in MAME as it is now, if you get the decrypted roms from CAVE and put a small dev team on ironing out the faults youll have a port for cheap in no time, yes?

im guessing thats the reason why theyve chosen these games aswell, emulation is starting to catch up and if CAVE want to capitalise on these titles now is the time, in a year they might be cracked and running for free on everyones computer (unlike SH3)...

ed: i dont think well see a wave of CAVE releases for the 360 regardless of how well these ports play/sell.

Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2008, 12:24:43 AM »
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afaik PGM games run pretty well in MAME as it is now, if you get the decrypted roms from CAVE and put a small dev team on ironing out the faults youll have a port for cheap in no time, yes?
If they use MAME, they will most likely be breaking MAME's license which I believe allows certain parts to be used in commercial products, but clearly not something that would run the game.

Also, a purely emulated solution would prevent a lot of the extras from working...like the graphics.  Unless of course they're just running some bullshit filter over everything.

Offline rtw

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2008, 03:37:17 AM »
Quote from: GaijinPunch
If they use MAME, they will most likely be breaking MAME's license which I believe allows certain parts to be used in commercial products, but clearly not something that would run the game.

Also, a purely emulated solution would prevent a lot of the extras from working...like the graphics.  Unless of course they're just running some bullshit filter over everything.
Actually if a company like KONAMI asks MAMEDEV if they can use their code the chances are pretty big that they will be allowed to do so.

However the codebase from the PGM games I am guessing is C based with a small mount of assembler. It would be a lot easier to just port the existing code. This would also allow for GFX updates in the tilemaps.

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Offline zakk

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2008, 10:48:21 AM »
Don't be so sure there. I seem to recall Mihara commenting that DOJ was pretty much an _insane_ amount of work to port. Of course, that could have been the last 5% of getting it perfect that was the 99% of the work.

It was bad enough that the stress of having to go through that process again is what made him turn down porting Mushi.

I have a feeling IKD is insane and his ratio of C/ASM may not be normal ;)


Quote from: rtw
However the codebase from the PGM games I am guessing is C based with a small mount of assembler. It would be a lot easier to just port the existing code. This would also allow for GFX updates in the tilemaps.

rtw

Offline RemyK313

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #96 on: March 18, 2008, 04:59:28 AM »
A port would be ASM to ASM.

When you're programming at the low-level for arcade stuff, it's in assembly. When you program for consoles, it's the same thing.

When you have limited resources on a system and you're trying to squeeze everything you can out of it, you're programming machine-instruction at a time. It may even be possible that they're re-writing/overloading stuff that would normally be handled by the original developer's kit libraries, or in their compilers. Most PC game programmers now program stuff that is handled entirely by the video card, and the processing is never touched by the computer's CPU. It's the same thing with video games and hardware. When you're good, and at home with hardware, you're writing directly to the hardware, with the limitations of the hardware directly in your mind at all times. It's never a question of "will my compiler make this work on the hardware" it's a question of "can I use this hardware module to implement this thing I want." And this is especially true when it comes to dealing with graphics hardware.

In any case, I've never heard of anyone but homebrew programmers making a big deal out of programming in C compared to ASM. They're the same thing, just assembly is like 5 lines for every line of C.

So, uh more importantly than squabbling over things we know absolutely nothing about (we don't work at either cave, or the company developing the port, so we don't know about how they develop things)

Is there any news on either this, or the Ketsui DS ports? We've been dry now for a good week or so.

Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #97 on: March 19, 2008, 01:16:02 AM »
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When you're programming at the low-level for arcade stuff, it's in assembly. When you program for consoles, it's the same thing.
I would take a fair guess that the developers of dating sims aren't going to be digging into Assembly too deep.  There's no reason why the 360's libraries can't handle the game.  It's like 10x as powerful and has plenty of RAM.  That would get it "playable".  The problem is, nut bags like us cringe at playable.  We want perfect.

Offline gsl

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #98 on: March 19, 2008, 06:29:08 AM »
Perfect was SOOO DDPDOJ port ago.  We want better-than-perfect, now.  Better than the original.

Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #99 on: March 19, 2008, 08:33:14 PM »
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Better than the original.
But you get that.  The game is in 720p!

Geeb

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2008, 10:19:06 PM »
Anyone know of a US release? It may not be expected, but consider that after Guwange, Progear and these two were the first two shooters released by cave, if I'm not mistaken. So maybe cave or 5pb want the west to "catch up" now. Though region free is fine by me.

Offline EOJ

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #101 on: March 19, 2008, 10:44:05 PM »
Official site open:

http://www.5pb.jp/games/div2/xb360/

I wonder what the "W" stands for. There's also another company logo at the bottom, between the CAVE logo and the 5pb logo. Anyone know what this is?




Also, gamespot Japan previews with more new pics:

DDP:DOJ BL
http://japan.gamespot.com/xbox360/news/story/0,3800075348,20369381-10329729p,00.htm

Ketsui
http://japan.gamespot.com/xbox360/news/story/0,3800075348,20369388-10329728p,00.htm

Still no mention of TATE mode.
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Geeb

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #102 on: March 19, 2008, 11:17:56 PM »
Atlus Division 2? It has Atlus trademarks at the bottom.

Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2008, 09:39:37 AM »
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I wonder what the "W" stands for.
"DOUBLE"

Guess that one isn't in your sick, huge linguistics books. ;)

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #104 on: March 20, 2008, 01:32:46 PM »
Quote from: EOJ
There's also another company logo at the bottom, between the CAVE logo and the 5pb logo. Anyone know what this is?
5pb.Games Division #2

Offline rtw

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #105 on: March 23, 2008, 07:44:51 PM »
Quote from: RemyK313
In any case, I've never heard of anyone but homebrew programmers making a big deal out of programming in C compared to ASM. They're the same thing, just assembly is like 5 lines for every line of C.
Actually they are not, with ASM you can fine tune a loop, predict branches, control the pipeline and jump hoops around the stack.

Normal procedure is to write the main code in C and then throw in some assembler where it is needed.

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Offline gsl

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #106 on: March 24, 2008, 06:40:55 AM »
Quote from: GaijinPunch
Quote
I wonder what the "W" stands for.
"DOUBLE"

Guess that one isn't in your sick, huge linguistics books. ;)
Yeah, what the hell is that?  I went to Lotteria the other day to find a menu full of W cheeseburgers filled with all those strange things the Japanese like to ruin burgers with, like scary egg-looking composites.

How does one even pronounce 'W' in this language, anyways?

Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2008, 10:00:12 AM »
Quote from: gsl
How does one even pronounce 'W' in this language, anyways?
Once again "double" is how they pronounce it.  Well, "daburu".
Playing PSO, if you wanted to trade for the Double Canon, it was W-Canon.

Offline EOJ

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #108 on: March 28, 2008, 04:36:52 AM »
These were originally planned to be for XBLA, but Microsoft rejected them! Full story:

http://www.xblah.net/2008/03/5pb.html

Thanks to Tain over at the-nextlevel.com for pointing this out.

It's a shame, as 5pb said they had a bunch of licenses for arcade games, but were only able to release these two, which were the most "promising". Perhaps the others were stuff like Progear and Guwange? Would have been great to see those on XBLA, but it seems Microsoft doesn't want them for some stupid reason. Maybe the PSN would be a better choice?
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Offline RAR

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #109 on: March 28, 2008, 05:23:07 PM »
That's fucking dumb.

Now I don't know if I'll be able to play either ports because I don't own a JP Xbox 360, nor do I plan on shelling out $$$ just to be able to play these two, and / or Raiden Fighters Aces.

Way to go, Microsoft.

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #110 on: March 28, 2008, 08:22:01 PM »
i can't understand M$oft on this one, on one hand they have a pretty lame shooter like Trigger Heart Exelica ported on XLA and on the other hand they don't want masterpieces like Ketsui or DDP DOJ BL ... to me this is just insane.

thanks to 5pb to port those games, if their primary intention was to port many great arcade shooters on XLA, then i hope those two will sell well, i'd really like to see some ports of ESP Ra De, Progear, Guwange or some Raizing stuff.

Offline EOJ

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« Reply #111 on: March 28, 2008, 08:26:55 PM »
Quote from: Budloc
on one hand they have a pretty lame shooter like Trigger Heart Exelica ported on XLA
Triggerheart has the POLYGONS. As does Ikaruga. So they get the "OK" from MS.
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Offline zakk

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #112 on: March 28, 2008, 09:02:31 PM »
No, more like approval of those ports got in before some sort of policy shift. They've been in the works for a while.


These things aren't getting approved anymore because to most of their market, the difference between holding A down and blowing up everything on the screen in Ketsui vs DOJ vs Guwange vs Raiden vs Mushi vs DDP is zero. "Some shit blew up and omg I can't dodge this stuff"

You can already see somewhat of an anti-retro sentiment growing amongst some reviewers and 'casual' gamers. "oh another arcade port, what's the point?" Or the ever favorite "another shooter? It's not Ikaruga so what's the point"

MS is going to throw their resources at casual, indy developed games. I can't say this is a bad move, all things considered.

Besides, you really WANT these releases to be disc based ones. You get more features, some pack-in bonuses, and you'll still be able to play them in 10 years (assuming there are any surviving X360s in 10 years...)

Offline RAR

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #113 on: April 01, 2008, 06:15:05 AM »
This was posted on Shacknews regarding Microsoft's decision to cut back on Arcade XBLA games, and also mentions Ketsui and DDP DOJ ports.

http://shacknews.com/onearticle.x/51994

Offline EOJ

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2008, 12:39:26 AM »
No real new info, but I found 5bp Division #2's website:

http://5pb.jp/games/div2/

They have DDPDOJ and Ketsui there (still no release date for either), as well as their upcoming game "Season of L part 2" (a high school fantasy novel game), which is due in June and is apparently taking up their time currently. :/
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Offline RemyK313

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #115 on: May 21, 2008, 11:19:16 PM »
It's nice to know all our beloved and super-anticipated shmups take a backseat to other games  :(

Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #116 on: May 22, 2008, 12:28:53 AM »
10 bucks says the one they're working on sells better than BL & Ketsui combined.

Offline adverse

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2008, 12:36:34 AM »
If Cave took the 360's ridiculous region locking off of its releases, and allowed gamers in the States, Europe and elsewhere to get their hands on it, the games would do well.  Look at how much attention Ikaruga got when released!  And there's a pretty strong community of people playing that on Live.  Both of these games could do the same with even a competent English translation/ad campaign.

Offline EOJ

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« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2008, 12:41:31 AM »
Quote from: adverse
If Cave took the 360's ridiculous region locking off of its releases,
Cave isn't releasing these. The publisher/porting company is called 5pb. They're the ones who can choose whether to make it region free or not. Cave just sold them the rights to port the games.
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Offline GaijinPunch

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Ketsui and DDP DOJ BL ports [JP X360]
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2008, 01:29:17 AM »
"Do well" is very subjective as well.  The amount of people that play these games in the west is amazingly small.... even smaller than Japan, where they're getting a port from a micro developer.