Author Topic: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]  (Read 73938 times)

Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidai-Oujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #450 on: May 16, 2012, 01:15:34 PM »
I have the distortion as well.

Doesn't bother me.

Game works flawlessly.


Offline MikeNeko

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #451 on: May 20, 2012, 12:07:38 PM »
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17880450
look at the top left ... ;)
I guess a patched version will arrive soon.

Offline Erppo

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #452 on: May 20, 2012, 01:32:05 PM »
Assuming the game counterstops at 999 billion (though there still seems to be room for one more digit), it wouldn't take much more optimization of the stage to reach it with that rate. If he had spent the entire duration of the hyper with the chain value rolled over, he would have done it right there.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #453 on: May 20, 2012, 09:26:43 PM »
I don't see the problem - he gets 272bil by the end of stage 5. Where is the counterstop, or evidence of it? How could he get more than the 54K hits he has? Even if there is a counterstop, you can't get it before the end of stage 5, right? Then it would be like Futari Ultra. I don't see why they would patch this game for that.
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Offline Sapz

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #454 on: May 20, 2012, 09:43:42 PM »
Basically, the issue is that once the GP counter passes 21.47m, it overflows and suddenly becomes 999m value - hence in the small interval between him reaching the overflow and the hyper ending, he increases his score by about 20 times over. A little more optimization in the prior parts to give a level 10 hyper and the guy probably would have had the 999m GP value for the entire hyper, either reaching another new digit or counterstopping the game out of nowhere (from what I can tell).

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #455 on: May 20, 2012, 09:47:13 PM »
Thanks for the explanation - I couldn't make out the GP counter value on the grainy video. Still I don't see why this would be patched. You can only do it in Expert (apparently), and only at the end of stage 5. Pretty similar to other Cave counterstops which were not patched.
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Offline cstarflare

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #456 on: May 20, 2012, 10:12:42 PM »
His score jumps from like 14 billion to 272 billion. It's not a natural progression of the game system, it's almost 95% of his score in ~4 seconds. There's no counterstop here (yet? a full hyper is about 25 seconds I think?), but Cave's counterstops have always been the logical result of extremely proficient play. This just happens.

People on shmups are theorizing that it's an issue with storing the GP as a signed integer instead of unsigned, which results in the max value it can store being less than the max value you can attain. Why this would make the game vomit points on you is beyond me.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #457 on: May 20, 2012, 10:21:02 PM »
His score jumps from like 14 billion to 272 billion. It's not a natural progression of the game system, it's almost 95% of his score in ~4 seconds. There's no counterstop here (yet? a full hyper is about 25 seconds I think?), but Cave's counterstops have always been the logical result of extremely proficient play. This just happens.


Well you still need "extremely proficient play" to do it - getting 50k+ hits in Expert isn't exactly easy. I agree it's broken in a sense. It reminds me somewhat of how you can skyrocket your score on Doom in DFK Ketsui Arrange mode.
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Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #458 on: May 20, 2012, 11:48:09 PM »
His score jumps from like 14 billion to 272 billion. It's not a natural progression of the game system, it's almost 95% of his score in ~4 seconds. There's no counterstop here (yet? a full hyper is about 25 seconds I think?), but Cave's counterstops have always been the logical result of extremely proficient play. This just happens.


Well you still need "extremely proficient play" to do it - getting 50k+ hits in Expert isn't exactly easy. I agree it's broken in a sense. It reminds me somewhat of how you can skyrocket your score on Doom in DFK Ketsui Arrange mode.

There are a lot of really good players. I'm sure you could do this.

The game is broken, all record scores are void.

I'm currently competing with my buddy on an iOS game. He glitched through a stage and saved like 4 seconds, which is a HUGE amount of time in this game.

I'm a top ranked player and I'm pissed.

I'm sure some Japanese gamers will be pissed.


Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #459 on: May 20, 2012, 11:51:19 PM »
I agree with your last sentence. Nothing above that.

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Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #460 on: May 21, 2012, 12:03:22 AM »
I agree with your last sentence. Nothing above that.



I dont't think it's fair for him to be able to glitch through a stage and best me by 4 seconds,
I can't replicate it. It's impossible.

Maybe not the best comparison, but you get the idea.

I don't see how world record scores could count?

If I'm missing something, tell me.




Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #461 on: May 21, 2012, 12:10:24 AM »
If it's a glitch that Cave wants to fix, they'll fix it and release a ver 1.5. If not, it's part of the game and all scores are fair game. We'll have to wait and see. I really don't think this is that bad - it doesn't happen with Shot or Laser, and it's actually a pretty cool reward for getting such a high hit count.

Food for thought: I'll be lucky to get to stage 5 in Expert, let alone get 50k hits there. I'm guessing no one complaining about this is ever going to replicate it. No sooner than they'll counterstop Futari Ultra or Guwange, at least.
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Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #462 on: May 21, 2012, 12:18:05 AM »
If it's a glitch that Cave wants to fix, they'll fix it and release a ver 1.5. If not, it's part of the game and all scores are fair game. My money's on the latter. I really don't think this is that bad - it doesn't happen with Shot or Laser, and it's actually a pretty cool reward for getting such a high hit count.

Food for thought: I'll be lucky to get to stage 5 in Expert, let alone get 50k hits there. I'm guessing no one complaining about this is ever going to replicate it. No sooner than they'll counterstop Futari Ultra or Guwange, at least.

I think EX is hard, but not Futari Ultra hard...

I'm struggling to get past the stage 5 mid boss. C-S

2.7B is my best... I kinda quit playing though. I really don't like it much.




Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #463 on: May 21, 2012, 12:20:05 AM »
I don't play it in the arcades much anymore. I still like it, but it will take a lot of work for me to get good at scoring (I could never learn a chaining game in an arcade - I don't know how some guys do that), and I don't want to waste a ton of yen trying to do it in a smoky arcade! I'll wait for a port.
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Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #464 on: May 21, 2012, 12:42:06 AM »
I don't play it in the arcades much anymore. I still like it, but it will take a lot of work for me to get good at scoring (I could never learn a chaining game in an arcade - I don't know how some guys do that), and I don't want to waste a ton of yen trying to do it in a smoky arcade! I'll wait for a port.

I'm glad you didn't act like it was the coming of Christ.

Some dudes are waaaaay too excited.


Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #465 on: May 21, 2012, 12:46:02 AM »
I still think it's the best canonical Donpachi game. I don't count DFK BL (which I prefer to SDOJ) as that's more of a side project and doesn't really play like a Donpachi game.
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Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #466 on: May 21, 2012, 12:49:26 AM »
I still think it's the best canonical Donpachi game. I don't count DFK BL (which I prefer to SDOJ) as that's more of a side project and doesn't really play like a Donpachi game.

You don't like DOJ though, do you?


Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #467 on: May 21, 2012, 12:52:18 AM »
I don't dislike it. I rank the DDP canon (again, no DFK BL here) as:

1)SDOJ
2)DFK 1.5
3)DOJ
4)Donpachi
5)Dodonpachi

All are good, fun games.
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Offline Let_It_Be

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #468 on: May 21, 2012, 01:53:19 AM »
I'll wait for a port.

But won't chaining be even harder to learn with a touch screen?  :laugh:

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #469 on: May 21, 2012, 01:55:00 AM »
That's not a port. It's just an alternative use for sandwich money.
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Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #470 on: May 21, 2012, 11:58:23 AM »
That's not a port. It's just an alternative use for sandwich money.

lol

Offline Erppo

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #471 on: May 21, 2012, 12:44:09 PM »
There is no reason to believe that it wouldn't be possible to overflow the chain value in other modes too. The game has only been out for a couple of weeks so surely the scoring hasn't been fully optimized yet. Incidentally, does anyone know how long did it take for people to counterstop Guwange / Futari?

I'm guessing no one complaining about this is ever going to replicate it. No sooner than they'll counterstop Futari Ultra or Guwange, at least.

This is just silly. Some people have reached it in just a few weeks already, why couldn't we do it given unlimited time?

So far this seems lot more serious, since both Futari and Guwange require near-optimal play for the whole game in order to reach the max score near the end of the game (or in the end game bonus for a full lives clear in Guwange). In this, the earlier stages are now completely pointless since you can presumably only get that high chain value in stage 5. The older games were also based on optimizing the normal scoring extremely well while this is just bug abuse.

E: It also has nothing to do with the hit count, but the value of the chain breaking the upper bound for a signed 32-bit integer which seems to mess the score calculations pretty badly.

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #472 on: May 21, 2012, 01:00:02 PM »
Incidentally, does anyone know how long did it take for people to counterstop Guwange / Futari?
First Ultra counterstop was in the March 2008 Arcadia, I think.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #473 on: May 21, 2012, 09:07:47 PM »
I'm guessing no one complaining about this is ever going to replicate it. No sooner than they'll counterstop Futari Ultra or Guwange, at least.

This is just silly.

I'm just being realistic based on past performance. Let me know when someone complaining about it right now does it and I'll agree with your statement.

Quote
Some people have reached it in just a few weeks already, why couldn't we do it given unlimited time?

So it's been counterstopped by multiple people now? I had not heard that - care to share some proof of this? I only heard of one Japanese guy who *apparently did it once* (no hard proof of this such as a photo), who appears to be the only guy to have counterstopped Futari Ultra 1.5 with Reco (fufufu). Also, no one has "unlimited time" unless they have SDOJ cabs in the afterlife.

Quote
E: It also has nothing to do with the hit count, but the value of the chain breaking the upper bound for a signed 32-bit integer which seems to mess the score calculations pretty badly.

You can't get a high GP value without a high hit count. GP value decreases by 30% with each chain break. The two go hand in hand.
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Offline ebarrett

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #474 on: May 22, 2012, 01:04:55 AM »
oh, EOJ, you and your love of game-breaking bugs.  :rolleyes:

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #475 on: May 22, 2012, 02:05:48 AM »
This and the DFK 1.0 counterstop are the only game-breaking bugs in Cave games I know of. I don't love either of them.
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Offline drboom

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #476 on: May 22, 2012, 09:50:44 AM »
Have any of you that own the pcb asked Cave about a possible 1.5 version - or an update to the existing version based on the 'broken' scoring we are talking about? They seemed pretty fast to respond to the sound issue, maybe this too?

Offline TonK

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #477 on: May 22, 2012, 11:14:34 AM »
Have any of you that own the pcb asked Cave about a possible 1.5 version - or an update to the existing version based on the 'broken' scoring we are talking about? They seemed pretty fast to respond to the sound issue, maybe this too?

No, not yet.

Waiting to see if they even acknowledge it.


Offline SFN

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #478 on: May 22, 2012, 01:53:33 PM »
Code: [Select]
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17895880
This is dumb.

Offline eckart

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #479 on: May 22, 2012, 02:03:07 PM »

Yumi told me yesterday cave won`t make another version.