Author Topic: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]  (Read 74538 times)

Offline Let_It_Be

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #480 on: May 22, 2012, 04:06:52 PM »
Did they tell him why they don't plan on making a new version?

Offline moozooh

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #481 on: May 22, 2012, 04:46:57 PM »
Code: [Select]
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17895880
This is dumb.
So they just reused the same Hibachi as in S/L modes? Weird.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #482 on: May 22, 2012, 09:19:02 PM »
Code: [Select]
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17895880
This is dumb.
So they just reused the same Hibachi as in S/L modes? Weird.

It's the same as in DFK BL, so I'm not surprised. Still waiting to see the Kagebachi boss.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #483 on: May 23, 2012, 12:50:06 AM »
A few things to think about regarding this apparent "Bug":

-So far no confirmation of any score counterstop (if anyone can provide of evidence of one, please let me know), 272bil is the highest anyone can confirm. Many doubt a counterstop is possible due to the fact you can only do this at the end of stage 5 and there simply aren't enough enemies (or time in a hyper) to accomplish it.
-If you can push the score to 999bil, it's possible the counter may go to 1 trillion (there is space for another digit), or roll over to A0000+, since Yagawa is a programmer on it.
-A growing number on 2Ch, as well as fu (the guy who made the video) now doubt this is a "bug" since it displays all 9s in the GP meter and resets back to a normal level on exiting a hyper. It may just be a hidden, upper level fever mode.
-Cave has said they will not update the game - an admission that this is not a bug, or apathy on their part?

Right now I think we just have to wait and see how this all plays out, and we should not jump to conclusions.
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Offline eckart

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #484 on: May 23, 2012, 02:33:09 AM »

-Let it be, no i only got this short dry answer like the last time with the sound problematic.
(Cave told us to tell you they do not have any plan for another version yet.)

Like eoj said, guess the best thing is to wait and see.


Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #485 on: May 23, 2012, 04:00:26 AM »
-A growing number on 2Ch, as well as fu (the guy who made the video) now doubt this is a "bug" since it displays all 9s in the GP meter and resets back to a normal level on exiting a hyper. It may just be a hidden, upper level fever mode.
So it's an intentional feature that makes it so 99% of your score comes from that small section at the end of stage 5.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #486 on: May 23, 2012, 04:47:55 AM »
Think of it as the orgasm of the game. Also, even without this bug - or whatever it is - stage 5 would still give over 70% of your total score. Scoring in this game is all about stage 5.
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Offline SuperPang

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #487 on: May 23, 2012, 07:52:13 AM »
eckart, do you know if Cave can fix the audio issue or not? Yumi doesn't seem to want to reply to me any more.

As for this GP meter bug (which I'm sure it is), I doubt we'll see a fix. It's clear Cave wanted to avoid a 1.5 from the start and if it only affects a handful of players and doesn't counterstop the game, I doubt they're bothered. It sounds like an easy fix though so our best hope would be that someone sorts out a new master version in their lunch hour but if they made that available on request there would be some confusion in arcades so they might not bother. I think a bug just became a high score exploit.

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #488 on: May 23, 2012, 09:04:42 AM »
eckart, do you know if Cave can fix the audio issue or not? Yumi doesn't seem to want to reply to me any more.

As for this GP meter bug (which I'm sure it is), I doubt we'll see a fix. It's clear Cave wanted to avoid a 1.5 from the start and if it only affects a handful of players and doesn't counterstop the game, I doubt they're bothered.
Doubt it, I'm pretty sure even a few of my scores are better than what the top players were getting on release month. Still doesn't sound like something that would require a 1.5 as long as the game doesn't counterstop though it pretty much kills my interest in expert mode.

Offline SuperPang

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #489 on: May 23, 2012, 09:11:52 AM »
It sounds like something that just happens once you get good enough rather than a trick you have to pull off so that's some consolation. It's just a bit of a PITA for those who can't quite manage it and get a 90% lower score :laugh:

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #490 on: May 23, 2012, 09:21:00 AM »
Reminds me of Mamoru-kun wa norowareteshimatta in that regard.

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Offline eckart

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #491 on: May 23, 2012, 10:43:57 AM »

SuperPang, yes she said cave can fix it.

In my case the distotion gets a bit better after a while.
But i guess i take the option and send it back in two weeks.

-On the backside of the pcb is a small round button with a date of next year.
Somebody know what this say?

Offline ookitarepanda

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #492 on: May 23, 2012, 10:53:47 AM »
So basically it sounds like it's your reward for surviving to level 5 on expert anyway. Like Mushihimesama Original Mode. Good for you if you can get some points in the game, but every time you die, that's 10,000,000 off your final score. And believe me, average players won't get much more than 10m from all levels combined in that game. All that matters is surviving. Did people call that a glitch back in the day?

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #493 on: May 23, 2012, 01:04:14 PM »
The thing is unless I'm misunderstanding something unlike something like the lives bonus in Mushi original that are tied to how well you play the overall game, this is tied only to how well you do in a section at the end of the stage 5. So it pretty much makes it pointless to even bother learning how to score the rest of the game outside of optimizing that 1 chain.

Offline moozooh

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #494 on: May 23, 2012, 01:32:01 PM »
One more thing to consider is that you can drastically reduce the difficulty of the first four stages by deliberately ignoring all aspects of scoring, keeping rank to minimum, and avoiding hyper use. If that recent A-E clear video is any representative of that playing style, getting to stage 5 won't be any harder than Futari BL God Mode, and you won't have to kill the end boss or fulfill the TLB requirements to have a score in the hundreds of billions; you'll just need to drill stage 5 over and over until you're able to get a high enough GP value. I'd say that does break the game very much, at least that particular mode. In no other Cave game you get up to 99% of your score within several seconds.

And if the fact that such "feature" magically happens at the exact border value of a 32-bit signed integer overflow?a very typical and common programming mistake?doesn't seem awfully suspicious, I don't know what does. For me it's pretty clear that if the 8th digit of the GP value overlaps with "+", they have once again underestimated players' abilities just like it happened with DFK 1.0.
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Offline Erppo

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #495 on: May 23, 2012, 04:49:10 PM »
-So far no confirmation of any score counterstop (if anyone can provide of evidence of one, please let me know), 272bil is the highest anyone can confirm. Many doubt a counterstop is possible due to the fact you can only do this at the end of stage 5 and there simply aren't enough enemies (or time in a hyper) to accomplish it.

Did you look at the video? He only spends a little over 3 seconds with the chain value overfloved and during that time he earns over 250 billion. That's already 1/4th of the way to the (presumable) counterstop. It's pretty unreasonable to assume that his stage is completely perfect and that he couldn't scrape up a little more chain value to spend couple of extra seconds in the bugged state. Furthermore, his hyper is only of level 9. Because of how the chain value multiplier works, he would have likely been able to spend the entire duration of the hyper with the bug if he had done a level 10 hyper. That would earn score equal to several counterstops.


-A growing number on 2Ch, as well as fu (the guy who made the video) now doubt this is a "bug" since it displays all 9s in the GP meter and resets back to a normal level on exiting a hyper. It may just be a hidden, upper level fever mode.

It would be pretty weird for it to not reset when the hyper ends since the hyper multiplier is the only thing bringing his chain value over the limit. And just like moozooh said, I find this happening in the exact value of a signed 32-bit integer overflow more than little suspicious.

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #496 on: May 24, 2012, 10:19:31 PM »
Edit. I found my guy. A-S it is. Stage 4 really rapes my butt... :facepalm:
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 12:13:41 AM by Muchi Muchi Spork »

Offline Kaneda

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #497 on: May 25, 2012, 06:58:27 AM »

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #498 on: June 05, 2012, 07:18:46 AM »
Just got an email from Tops: Cave is making a second batch of sdoj, it will be released end of june or early july. Preorders close on june 6. Same price as before.
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Offline SuperPang

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #499 on: June 05, 2012, 12:11:48 PM »
From my communication with Yumi, it doesn't sound like it will have the GP bonus counterstop or audio distortion fixed because from her communication with Cave it sounds like they're either unaware of the issues or they don't think they're important. Our email conversations are rather cryptic though and I'm getting replies like "We sent email and Cave said there is no more problem." and "Cave already fix it we heard about  it. It was only 1  piece of it had a problem we heard." Neither bug is a big deal to me so I'll draw a line under it there unless anyone hears otherwise or there's a dot on the next version.

Great news for Cave though. I wonder if they've ordered more CV1000 components?

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #500 on: June 05, 2012, 02:12:00 PM »
The audio issue in SDOJ is way worse than I first thought. I've done some wave recordings and comparisons against Deathsmiles (which is the 2nd worst sounding board they have ever made) and the SDOJ problem is much worse. You can hear it here:

http://youtu.be/V0zdRNpBthc

Well, you can hear them in any of the videos, but I go to lengths to find the ideal pcb volume out recording level (I used to produce bands) as to not add distortion from my end. This is recorded at the ideal level, the best the board can sound, any distortion here is unavoidable. Just analyzing the wave file you will see a complete lack of range (more so than their other 3rd gen boards though they all seem to do some brickwalling) and some staticy spikes that I can't really describe, but it's rather bad. So we are looking into getting it fixed, which means Cave reencoding the audio as if they have a clue and redoing the sound roms. I'm wondering if eckart has any update. The sooner the better.

Offline moozooh

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #501 on: June 05, 2012, 02:36:14 PM »
Wow, so all of that distortion comes from the PCB? Jesus, I thought it was the players' ineptitude... The crackle alone is truly horrible.
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Offline eckart

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #502 on: June 05, 2012, 02:38:47 PM »

Muchi Muchi Spork, good to hear your sound recording. Mine sounds 100% the same on earphones.
Playing normal with loudspeakers you cannot hear the problem.

Decided now not to send the pcb back cause i think it is a all customer problem.
Guess the new run sound the same. If not than i send mine back for sure.

Anyway, great that cave has such a big succsess with this new release.
Hope for another sh3 game somehow.

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #503 on: June 05, 2012, 03:33:29 PM »
Am I the only one who doesn't notice any sound problems?

Offline brentsg

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #504 on: June 05, 2012, 03:54:22 PM »
Am I the only one who doesn't notice any sound problems?

Are you referencing the PCB or the recordings specifically?

It sounds terrible.

Offline hana-bi

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #505 on: June 06, 2012, 09:42:35 AM »
Just got an email from Tops: Cave is making a second batch of sdoj, it will be released end of june or early july. Preorders close on june 6. Same price as before.
If not too late could you give more details about who to contact ? Cheers

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #506 on: June 06, 2012, 01:47:06 PM »
It's already the 7th in Japan but you could still try.



DEAR CUSTOMERS,
 
PLEASE BE INFORMED CAVE WILL RELEASE THE 2ND LOT OF ?DODONPACHI SAIDAI OUJOU? AS BELOW.
 
 
?DODONPACHI SAIDAIOUJOU? PCB KIT (including a poster)
 
 
*INFORMATION AND CONDITIONS :
 
*UNIT PRICE : JPY198,000
*PRICE TERMS: EX GODOWN
*ADVANCED ORDER: CLOSED ON 6/JUNE/2012
*RELEASE DATE: SCHEDULED IN END/JUNE-EAR/JULY/2012
*DEPOSIT: JPY60,000 IS REQUESTED AS DEPOSIT WHEN YOU CONFIRM ORDER.
*REMARK: ADVANCED ORDER WILL BE CLOSED  AT 17:00 ON 6/JUNE/2012 (JAPAN TIME)
*DEVELOPER : CAVE
*CONDITION: BRAND NEW
*VERSION: JAPANESE
*GENRE : SHOOTING
*OPERATION : 1 LEVER & 3 BUTTONS
*PLAYERS : 1-2 PLAYERS
*PCB USED : EXCLUSIVE
*PRODUCT FORM : PCB
*OFFICIAL SITE :
http://www.cave.co.jp/gameonline/saidaioujou/
 
IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN, PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO CONTACT US FOR MORE DETAILS.
sophia@ace.ocn.ne.jp
 
Thanks and Best regards,
T. ORIHARA

Offline MikeNeko

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #507 on: June 06, 2012, 04:45:30 PM »
Thanks MMS for the video... the hiss is pretty bad on the sfx... if that s the best it can sound then this is a shame. DS song was bad, but this is another league. You better have a sound system with poor mid-high band restitution in the cab (or be drowned in other cabs music/sounds nearby) :/

They should have hired Dan Forden the king of pinballs sound, he could do wonders with low quality samples by carefully preparing them :)
But... perhaps the second batch has been fixed !

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #508 on: June 06, 2012, 08:17:00 PM »
I'm trying to get a fix for it right now. My guess is they would rather deny acknowledging that there is a real issue than to risk having to take back tons of boards. We're not talking about an easy fix where you plug it into a JTAG connector and press buttons. It would be a right pain in the ass to update them.

I've just heard the OST with correct quality and... It is monumentally awesome.

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2012, ARCADE]
« Reply #509 on: June 07, 2012, 01:26:06 AM »
I'm trying to get a fix for it right now. My guess is they would rather deny acknowledging that there is a real issue than to risk having to take back tons of boards.
If you used to work in recording and production, do you still have access to measuring equipment? FR graphs and/or THD/noise measurements could make an even more compelling case, especially if you compare the quality over multiple sh3 boards. Admittedly, that's a lot of work with not much chance of reward, but at the very least you can back up your points-- hopefully well enough that somebody will notice.

Even if they won't put out a fix, getting them to acknowledge it would probably make it much less likely for something like this to happen again.

Just my $0.02.