Author Topic: New guy, looking for advice  (Read 1845 times)

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2012, 10:02:23 AM »
They're at full speed all right. Full speed with absolutely no slowdown, which is a very bad thing if you ever decide to play for score or even try to survive in one of their harder games.

Offline Noiryt

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2012, 10:42:25 AM »
Actually the lag that you speak of is present.

Offline HVL

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2012, 10:56:42 AM »
Actually the lag that you speak of is present.

If it's deliberately programmed in, yes. However, most of the slowdown is caused by the hardware's limitations. Since you own the console versions with respectable slowdown accuracy, try playing them and MAME versions right after.

Offline Noiryt

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2012, 11:07:06 AM »
I'm no expert on the matter but I am fairly sure it is there.
Lately I've been playing Mushihimesama Futari Black Label God mode on my 360. The Lag and unlag is obvious here.
I just ran through the first level on mame and the lag/unlag is there. Fraps says the frame rate is at 60 throughout, if it were to dip the video and sound would also. The emulation is full speed.

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2012, 11:13:27 AM »
Compare:

MAME: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMhwBA1WY88
PCB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYv1VnFvefQ

I think the difference is pretty clear.

Offline Noiryt

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2012, 11:32:02 AM »
You're right it isn't the same, I'm totally wrong sorry. It does slow down in Mame at certain times but not as much.
Sorry for derailing the topic.

On topic..
I was in a similar situation to softdrink not long ago, I had to decide whether to get a Japanese 360 or PAL region console, I went with PAL in the end.
The main deterent to importing was the cost. Shipping from Japan to the UK is expensive when using a courier and everything is taxed 20% also. Getting a HRAP EX-SE and the three region free Cave titles cost me a lot of money. A Japanese console and all of the releases would have been more than I can afford. I suppose an upside to this choice is that I could support publishers releasing games in my own region (Rising Star Games) and the english translation is nice. Akai Katana comes out here in two days! Also there are occasional domestic releases we might want.

Did softdrink mention whether he was getting a stick? That is just as important.


« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 12:16:31 PM by Noiryt »

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2012, 03:50:28 PM »
You're right it isn't the same, I'm totally wrong sorry. It does slow down in Mame at certain times but not as much.
Sorry for derailing the topic.

On topic..
I was in a similar situation to softdrink not long ago, I had to decide whether to get a Japanese 360 or PAL region console, I went with PAL in the end.
The main deterent to importing was the cost. Shipping from Japan to the UK is expensive when using a courier and everything is taxed 20% also. Getting a HRAP EX-SE and the three region free Cave titles cost me a lot of money. A Japanese console and all of the releases would have been more than I can afford. I suppose an upside to this choice is that I could support publishers releasing games in my own region (Rising Star Games) and the english translation is nice. Akai Katana comes out here in two days! Also there are occasional domestic releases we might want.

Did softdrink mention whether he was getting a stick? That is just as important.


I admit that I'm glad that I don't have to deal with European or UK taxes. But shipping for me would have been $83 from Play-Asia. I brought it down by redoing my order from the US-based NCSX, but it's still almost $30 for shipping, which is still pretty bad. And the games themselves are far from cheap, I agree. But it's worth it.

I already own a stick (Eightarc Onyx PS3) which I will be dual modding once the new pcb arrives. I was going to buy a Hori, but I really, really liked the aesthetic and build quality of this stick, and it ended up being a bit cheaper. I used the money I would have spent on a Hori to buy a Seimitsu LS-58 stick, which is far, far superior to the JLF most sticks come with. Much more precise-- almost no deadzone, levered microswitches, and just the right amount of spring tension. Perfect for shmupping.

Offline darkidol

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2012, 07:46:05 PM »
To answer the initial question:

In short-- is it worth buying an NTSC/J Xbox right now and possibly missing out on some of CAVE's future releases, or should I wait on whatever might be coming?

Yes it is worth getting the ports.  If you get hooked on them you face years of steady progession in casual play, unless you want to monk-it-out and develop a training schedule, etc.  Either way, whichever suits you, you should be faced with years of fun.

For the games themselves I would recommend them all.  But if you were looking for one to practice 1cc's and one to practice scoring there are two that immediately come to my mind.  Deathsmiles will ease you into a 'hard' 1cc as well, if not better, than any other port I can think of.  By 'hard' 1cc I mean one where it's inevitable to have shaky moments unlike say a rank 1/2 only run where it can be pretty simple, comparitively.

For learning scoring and having fun doing so I would recommend Muchi Muchi Pork.  I don't know any other Cave game where it's as much fun to continue while playing for (non-WR-esque) score.  If you build up the medal value to the max, then lose all your lives, it stays when you continue!  That's in addition to 'Every' based extends which at 10 million (IIRC) are set at a very fair feeling value.  This is different to the majority of the other games where you can hit both extends very quickly (a lot of the time in the very first stage) but then have your score potential greatly stifled if not snuffed by one or two mistakes (look no further than Deathsmiles).  The port also has lots of options to change the actual game version, original game music, difficulty (though not sure exactly what this does - maybe makes the rank rise slower?).  You also get Pink Sweets (and a handful of versions of it) if you were to buy it.


Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2012, 08:13:42 PM »
To answer the initial question:

In short-- is it worth buying an NTSC/J Xbox right now and possibly missing out on some of CAVE's future releases, or should I wait on whatever might be coming?

Yes it is worth getting the ports.  If you get hooked on them you face years of steady progession in casual play, unless you want to monk-it-out and develop a training schedule, etc.  Either way, whichever suits you, you should be faced with years of fun.

For the games themselves I would recommend them all.  But if you were looking for one to practice 1cc's and one to practice scoring there are two that immediately come to my mind.  Deathsmiles will ease you into a 'hard' 1cc as well, if not better, than any other port I can think of.  By 'hard' 1cc I mean one where it's inevitable to have shaky moments unlike say a rank 1/2 only run where it can be pretty simple, comparitively.

For learning scoring and having fun doing so I would recommend Muchi Muchi Pork.  I don't know any other Cave game where it's as much fun to continue while playing for (non-WR-esque) score.  If you build up the medal value to the max, then lose all your lives, it stays when you continue!  That's in addition to 'Every' based extends which at 10 million (IIRC) are set at a very fair feeling value.  This is different to the majority of the other games where you can hit both extends very quickly (a lot of the time in the very first stage) but then have your score potential greatly stifled if not snuffed by one or two mistakes (look no further than Deathsmiles).  The port also has lots of options to change the actual game version, original game music, difficulty (though not sure exactly what this does - maybe makes the rank rise slower?).  You also get Pink Sweets (and a handful of versions of it) if you were to buy it.



Thanks, I've already bought an NTSC/J 360 and a couple games based on the recommendations in this thread.

I've already 1cc'ed Deathsmiles (highest setting on every stage, no gorge), and to be honest it's probably my least favorite CAVE game. I like the concept, but it doesn't really hook me like the rest.

Based on the number of positive comments I've heard regarding MMP, I will try to secure a copy. It depends how expensive it ends up being, because I'm running into the limit of my current budget for this particular series of purchases. But I'll definitely look into it.

Offline Chempop

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2012, 09:27:04 PM »
I enjoy every one of these games, I've 1CC most of them.  But if I had to rank them it would be something like this.

1. Espgaluda2
2. Dodonpachi DOJ
3. Akai Katana
4. Deathsmiles
5. Mushihimesama Futari 1.5/BL
6. Ketsui
7. Dodonpachi DFK 1.5/BL
8. Pink Sweets
9. Guwange
10. Muchi Muchi Pork
11. Deathsmiles 2X

Offline Special World

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2012, 09:50:46 PM »
Were you playing Deathsmiles for score? I thought it was butts until I realized I was supposed to let crowns break.

Somehow that made it really fun. STGs are weird.

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2012, 10:43:42 PM »
Were you playing Deathsmiles for score? I thought it was butts until I realized I was supposed to let crowns break.

Somehow that made it really fun. STGs are weird.

Nah. But I've played it through many times both in the US Xbox release (which from what I hear is regarded as terrible) and the iOS release in both arcade and campaign modes. Admittedly neither of these is an accurate arcade reproduction, but as I said, it just doesn't hook me like many of CAVE's other titles. The difficulty is there, but something about it just seems... off.

The only games I've tried scoring in thus far are DOJ (which is fun but too strict for my tastes), DFK (which is just about spot on), and Futari. I'm actually decent at Futari/Original. If I had to guess my ranking on the iOS leaderboards it would be somewhere between 25 and 45 (score of 199,677,968). But again, I haven't really given any of these games that much thought. Playing for score on a phone is... annoying, to put it mildly.

I'm really looking forward to being able to play more seriously once my stuff arrives.

I enjoy every one of these games, I've 1CC most of them.  But if I had to rank them it would be something like this.

1. Espgaluda2
2. Dodonpachi DOJ
3. Akai Katana
4. Deathsmiles
5. Mushihimesama Futari 1.5/BL
6. Ketsui
7. Dodonpachi DFK 1.5/BL
8. Pink Sweets
9. Guwange
10. Muchi Muchi Pork
11. Deathsmiles 2X

Interesting. From what I understand, a lot of people rank the Black Label releases differently than their counterparts.

I haven't played Akai Katana or Ketsui, though I've heard good things about both of them. Any thoughts?

Offline SomeMist

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2012, 11:17:34 AM »
1. Futari 1.5/BL
2. Ketsui
3. Espgaluda II
4. Dodonpachi DOJ
5. Akai Katana
6. Dodonpachi DFK 1.5/BL
7. Muchi Muchi Pork
8. Deathsmiles
9. Deathsmiles 2X
10. Pink Sweets
11. Guwange

this is how I feel ^
If I recommended a buy order I'd say try and snag MMP/PS and DOJ asap.. as MMP/PS is expensive/rare and DOJ is rare (since it was also a one print run). You never know if MMP/PS will get another print run..but why take a chance and have to buy it for a higher price down the line? Ketsui would also be worth getting early on, since it technically is one of the few games you can play due to buying a J360 instead of a US360.

Offline Orochi S

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2012, 11:50:38 AM »
Personally, along with Mushi Futari, I'd recommend getting that new DDP DFK/BL double pack - you get a hell of a lot of good stuff for your money there! 1.5, Arrange A, BL, and BL Arrange ('Kestuipachi'!) are all wonderful. Don't think twice.

Alternatively, I notice a new copy of MMP/PS with the very funky DLC is on ebay now for ?80 from Japan... you won't get cheaper than that.

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2012, 08:04:14 PM »
Okay, so as of now I have Mushi HD, Futari, and the DFK double pack all headed my way. I'm trying to decide between DOJBL, MMP, Ketsui, Akai Katana, or some combination thereof.

Given my current funds, it's looking like if I want DOJBL, I can't get anything else, whereas if I get MMP I *might* be able to find Ketsui or Akai Katana for cheap enough to grab a copy.

Thoughts?

Offline brentsg

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2012, 08:29:19 PM »
If it was me, I'd grab Ketsui and Porkpack.  But seriously, they are all good.

Offline Orochi S

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2012, 04:04:27 PM »
Good choices so far! :righton:

MMP is the best of those other games in my opinion, but Akai Katana would be a good choice too because it's a vert and so might make a nice change from the ones you already have?

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2012, 06:44:56 PM »
So I uh... caved (no pun intended) and bought Ketsui. I'm not really interested in Akai Katana, and it's quite cheap right now, so I'm not too concerned.

I was going to buy MMP, but I couldn't find a good offer. The lowest I could get it for was $150ish, which is too high by about $30 (this is before shipping). I'll keep my eyes open for another copy floating around somewhere.

I did find one for $130, but it had $20 shipping and might be susceptible to additional import duties... sigh.

Offline Orochi S

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2012, 02:54:49 AM »
Well, it might be worth paying a higher price for a copy of MMP with the DLC included - the matsuri version of MMP is really cool.

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2012, 03:03:40 AM »
Well, it might be worth paying a higher price for a copy of MMP with the DLC included - the matsuri version of MMP is really cool.
I hadn't thought of that...
On the other hand, I'm running very tight against the budget for a big summer project (I'm going to be building a pair of loudspeakers-- nice ones-- to complement my headphone setup), so I think I might have to draw the line here. If I see a good deal on MMP, I'll jump on it, but otherwise this might be it for now.

To be honest I'm very satisfied; counting the DLC options (like Futari BL), I have a full complement of games to enjoy for a long, long time. Thanks again to everyone who posted in this thread and gave me the push to finally do this.  =D

It's killing me to have to wait, though. I'm having the stuff shipped back home, which means I won't see it for a month. Something to motivate me through finals, I guess...

In other news, I got to Larsa on 1 credit AGAIN (fourth time now), with a personal record of 205mil, and died to her last pattern AGAIN. <sigh>

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: New guy, looking for advice
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2012, 01:31:46 AM »
Finally 1CC'ed Futari/Original!! Final score was 209M, which is actually lower than my personal best of 222M. I know I can do better, but damn what a rush at the end.

Since this thread is no longer really doing what it set out to, I'm going to stop updating here until either my stuff arrives or I find a good deal on MMP. I'm setting up a personal score thread in the corresponding board, if anyone is interested. So yeah. ;p