Author Topic: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!  (Read 1837 times)

Offline MegaJump

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Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« on: August 17, 2012, 12:44:20 PM »
Don't get me wrong, they're fantastic games, I just find the scoring systems to be just so annoying as to overshadow the gameplay factor.  I've read tons of stuff that people have written on how the scoring system works (actually, I think it's strange that Ibara's system is still not "for sure"), but I find that trying to even score moderately in these games just becomes too overwhelming.  Yes, I know these are Yagawa games, so they're all similar, but compared to say, Deathsmiles scoring system, these just rub me the wrong way.  I'm not trying to start an argument, just voicing my frustrations, as I do want to improve my skill with these games, but it's hard sometimes.

Offline cstarflare

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 12:56:51 PM »
Ketsui's not a Yagawa game.

I'm curious what parts of Ibara's system isn't understood, it seems to be as straightforward as Cave games get. For the most part, Pink Sweets and Ibara have fairly simple and unobtrusive scoring systems.

(though I don't understand Ibara's Arrange system at all)

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 01:22:27 PM »
I say just focus on one game. If you're trying to learn (let alone get good at) 3 games at once then, yes you're going to have a very hard and frustrating time figuring things out.

Also lol at grouping Ketsui as a Yagawa game.

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 02:53:01 PM »
Hehe, yea, my bad on the Ketsui programmer. :P  But you guys understand what I meant.  Like, if your supposed to regulary kill yourself in Ibara, how do even complete the first stage without using a continue?  It seems to me that collecting flowers yields more points then having to build up like 12 levels of medals, I mean, once you get there it's fine, but up until then?  Is the lock-on beam for continuous "5" cubes set on the timer for Ketsui?  Any good tips on how to keep tracks of where falling medals are in Ibara?  I always seem to loose them with so much different colored junk flying around. :P
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 03:07:25 PM by MegaJump »

Offline Korszca

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 04:28:19 PM »
Like, if your supposed to regulary kill yourself in Ibara, how do even complete the first stage without using a continue?
Not to be pedantic, but don't lose your last life!

It seems to me that collecting flowers yields more points then having to build up like 12 levels of medals, I mean, once you get there it's fine, but up until then?
The roses don't give enough points to care about them. You can (read: should) get the medals up to 10,000 before the first large building in stage 1. So "up until then" is about 30 seconds or so.

Any good tips on how to keep tracks of where falling medals are in Ibara?  I always seem to lose them with so much different colored junk flying around. :P
Yes, items fall on a set schedule.

There are really good videos of Ibara available.

Offline Kaneda

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 07:14:38 PM »
Like, if your supposed to regulary kill yourself in Ibara, how do even complete the first stage without using a continue?...Any good tips on how to keep tracks of where falling medals are in Ibara?  I always seem to loose them with so much different colored junk flying around. :P

Not to be mean, brother, but if you're asking these kinds of questions, you're not ready for diving into the complexities of Cave scoring systems just yet. At this point, I would second Gus's advice and recommend you focus on one game and just try to beat it on a credit. Learn the enemy patterns and the shot types, but don't focus so much on getting everything perfect.

It's like starting some massive painting of a large crowd and you immediately spend all your time getting the eyes right on some guy in the scene without first having a basic composition mapped out. As you play the game, it's subtleties will start to stand out and you'll be able to progress into improving your score.

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2012, 12:16:58 AM »
Naw, it's not being mean, you guys are just being honest, which I appreciate.  It's just one of those things, I understand the DonPachi series, Progear for the most part, the MS series, DS, even Akai Katana even though I've only watched videos on Youtube, it's just these certain games, I can't get a hold on them, I mean, the constant bombing, the hidden multipliers, suicide as part of the gameplay, etc.  Hey Timing, didn't you do a great captioned run of ESPGaluda II?  Do you happen to have one for Ibara?

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2012, 05:48:36 AM »
Hey Timing, didn't you do a great captioned run of ESPGaluda II?  Do you happen to have one for Ibara?
Sorry, I haven't even touched Ibara. :P To be honest while the practice is much more common in Japan, my Espgaluda II run is the only english-captioned "superplay" (if you can call it that) I know of. On the bright side Ibara seems to be a much more simpler game and there's several people here who've played it extensively and can explain to you anything you don't understand.

Offline Chempop

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 01:20:32 AM »
Ketsui - pretty darn straight forward game.  Point blank enemies with rapid and emediately start locking-on and keep killing stuff while absorbing 5-chips. 

Ibara - fairly standard Raizing system.  Don't let the medals reset and keep scoring enough to make up for loosing plenty of lives.  Bomba alota things.  Milk bosses by dismantling each part if you are brave enough.

Pink Sweets - insanely difficult and most atypical Raizing style cave title.  First 3 stages are a breeze, avoid using the rose crackers to keep rank down.  Stage 4 you'll likely need to use some crackers here and there, I also suggest getting the hang of having your options in reverse mode in order to swivel them into bullets to shield yourself.  Stage 5 will likely be the wall that makes you quit ever playing the game again.  Even if you get to the boss... GAME OVER MAN!!! lol

Offline SomeMist

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2012, 04:36:38 PM »
a little off topic, but where's this espgaluda II superplay available? :D
I haven't seen it and wouldn't mind checking it out.

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2012, 04:55:30 PM »
Here is Timing's video, very informative, even though I still can't get them to swarm the screen. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX2mtOupvEU

Back on topic, so for Ketsui, there's no way around the proximity thing?  I get that, I was just hoping there was a way not to since I'll most likely get killed all the time.  For Pink Sweets, IDK, it just seems like there isn't much opportunity for score rushing. :(

Offline ookitarepanda

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 10:34:58 AM »
No way around the proximity. That's how you get points.

Most Cave scoring systems are built on doing things that make you feel uncomfortable. Mushi 1.5 Original also has proximity stuff, making you sit near the top of the screen. ESPGaluda 1 and 2 both rely on getting huge amounts of bullets on the screen before you make them pop. The Yagawa games plain ol' rank-up as soon as you start doing well. DDP series makes you leave some key enemies on the screen (shooting at you) while you set up a perfect combo.

Just the way things are. They reward the more practiced players.

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 11:02:35 AM »
If you just wanted a basic 1-ALL on Ketsui you could do it while completely ignoring the scoring system. If you made it to the end just on straight survival you would probably still be over 20 mil so ignoring it would only cost you the 1 extra man at 45 mil. I'm not sure if MegaJump has any Cave clears at all though. It sounds like he is starting with the 3 hardest games.

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 08:30:51 PM »
You would be correct, I don't have any 1cc clears.  I play cave games for the fun of it.  I play to have fun, if I can score rush so be it.  I don't really intend on memorizing all enemies, be that as it may.  The main focus for me is to score rush, nothing more.

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2012, 10:24:03 PM »
OK, so I played a little Ketsui this morning based on what you guys said, and I found something interesting.  The medal counter carries over after death doesn't it?

Offline SomeMist

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 03:04:54 PM »
might be really bad advice since I only have a handful of easy cave clears (AK,AKS,DS,DSIIX,Futari original 1.5 and BL, Mushi 1.5 Max) but with Ketsui I find it easiest starting out with the X-Mode (arrange mode). Enemies seem that they're in the same spot (I'm not 100% if this is correct but from what I can tell they are in the exact same spot), plus you can cancel bullets which clears the screen a bit. The only difference (that I can see) is that the spreads are a bit "tighter" and you can't cancel bullets in arcade mode.

I used to struggle so hard with getting passed stage 3 arcade mode, then I stopped playing arcade mode and focused on X-mode. After a couple of weeks of practice, I can get to the 5th stage about every other try in X-Mode. Now switching back to arcade mode I can get to the 4th stage every couple of tries.

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 10:10:19 AM »
OK, so I played a little Ketsui this morning based on what you guys said, and I found something interesting.  The medal counter carries over after death doesn't it?

Hehe, I meant Ibara.  :p

Offline Plasmo

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2012, 05:13:16 AM »
Quote
I've read tons of stuff that people have written on how the scoring system works

Are you sure you did? Unfortunately there's still no complete strategy guide for Ibara, but I'd suggest reading through this topic, which should answer all your questions.

The medal counter in Ibara only resets if you miss a medal.

That being said, I have to add that Ibara is absurdly difficult. Most players give up at the second boss. For a starter (excuse me if I'm wrong...) it's probably the wrong choice. Pink Sweets is even worse and on top of that weird as hell, while Ketsui is probably the easiest (1st loop only), but still a rather difficult CAVE shmup due to it's strange bullet patterns.

Maybe try ESPGaluda oder Death Smiles? It's all about the fun, no need to get frusrated. If a game's destroying you, just choose another one and keep going. :)

Offline Korszca

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2012, 09:38:37 AM »
Throwing in Mushi Original Mode as an easy, straightforward game. Plus it's has a wide availability (for a Cave game) so it's easy to pick up.

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2012, 12:23:04 AM »
Quote
I've read tons of stuff that people have written on how the scoring system works

Are you sure you did? Unfortunately there's still no complete strategy guide for Ibara, but I'd suggest reading through this topic, which should answer all your questions.

The medal counter in Ibara only resets if you miss a medal.

That being said, I have to add that Ibara is absurdly difficult. Most players give up at the second boss. For a starter (excuse me if I'm wrong...) it's probably the wrong choice. Pink Sweets is even worse and on top of that weird as hell, while Ketsui is probably the easiest (1st loop only), but still a rather difficult CAVE shmup due to it's strange bullet patterns.

Maybe try ESPGaluda oder Death Smiles? It's all about the fun, no need to get frusrated. If a game's destroying you, just choose another one and keep going. :)

Exactly.  I meant that I've read alot of material on Ibara, and it's mostly a concensous, not a DEFINITE answer, which I always thought was weird.  Hasn't anyone whose been to a Matsuri event just gone up and ASKED a CAVE employee for a straight answer? :P
Actually, that's what I do mostly.  Like if I'm getting pissed at Ibara Black, then I go to.....MS 1.5, if that isn't working, then it's over to MMP, and so on. ;)

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 12:25:12 AM »
Throwing in Mushi Original Mode as an easy, straightforward game. Plus it's has a wide availability (for a Cave game) so it's easy to pick up.

I have it, but I prefer MSF BLK for it's more straightforward scoring system, and I also like playing as Palm more then Reco.  But that's just me. :righton:
I find the huge flashing x30000, and uber slowdown of MSF BLK gets me pumped up alot more.

Offline Korszca

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 06:51:29 PM »
I have it, but I prefer MSF BLK for it's more straightforward scoring system, and I also like playing as Palm more then Reco.  But that's just me. :righton:
I find the huge flashing x30000, and uber slowdown of MSF BLK gets me pumped up alot more.
Mushi Original Mode is by far more straightforward in it's scoring system. 80% of your total score is "do not miss." The other 20% is "destroy everything."

Offline MegaJump

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Re: Utterly frustrated with Ketsui/Ibara/Pink Sweets!
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 11:11:04 PM »
Right, but without the chaining meter, and the easier ability switch between green and blue gems on the fly like you can in MSFBLK, it's a tad tedious, because it IS just shooting everything, which I'll admit is all I do in any DPP game and hope for the best, but not as complex as PS or Ibara.