Author Topic: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]  (Read 6418 times)

Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2012, 09:57:42 AM »
Are there even any 99m+ runs on the Guwange leaderboard?

Offline Orochi S

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2012, 11:43:43 AM »
I just hope it's region-free or they find a new western publisher. Last I heard, RSG wasn't doing any more Cave games.

Where did you hear that RSG weren't doing more Cave games? That'd be a real shame.

Offline jyumi

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2012, 09:37:56 PM »
Are there even any 99m+ runs on the Guwange leaderboard?

Nope. The highest is around 70,300,000 in arcade mode.

But judging how high the arrange mode scores are (well over 99mil), they could have fixed it.
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Offline Monouchi

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2012, 01:27:37 PM »
"Cave announced that the Xbox 360 port of the arcade shooter DoDonPachi Saidaioujou will not include Kinect support, due to lack of support from Japanese players."

Oh really.

Offline Korszca

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2012, 03:48:12 PM »
They were considering it?

Offline Stompp

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2012, 10:36:14 AM »
Yup, actually since they added it in Instant Brain. Not the same kind, I know, and really Kinect for a shooter  ???

Offline mdsfx

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2012, 01:54:44 PM »
"Cave announced that the Xbox 360 port of the arcade shooter DoDonPachi Saidaioujou will not include Kinect support, due to lack of support from Japanese players."

Oh really.

You've got to be kidding. I would imagine using Kinect to play just about any STG would be one hell of a frustrating experience.

Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2012, 06:38:17 PM »
How would that even... I just don't understand why they felt compelled to point this out.

I mean, when I play shooters the first and most important consideration is always motion control. Obviously. XD

Regardless, it seems like this is well on its way to becoming an awesome port, so I'm super excited.

Offline ssfsx17

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2012, 01:54:03 AM »
It's possible that Microsoft tried to pay Cave money just to require the Kinect.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2012, 02:05:15 AM »
Let's remember Microsoft Japan and Cave have a very good, long standing relationship. Cave is probably their best loyal Japanese company. Asada has said he's interested in Kinect before, and now, Smartglass. He likes to experiment with these new technologies, and he implemented Kinect controls in the DDP port. That apparently wasn't used by enough people to make implementing such controls in SDOJ worth their time.
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Offline Softdrink 117

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2012, 05:09:10 AM »
Let's remember Microsoft Japan and Cave have a very good, long standing relationship. Cave is probably their best loyal Japanese company. Asada has said he's interested in Kinect before, and now, Smartglass. He likes to experiment with these new technologies, and he implemented Kinect controls in the DDP port. That apparently wasn't used by enough people to make implementing such controls in SDOJ worth their time.

Very true. I must admit I'm really curious what ideas he has for Smartglass, as it looks like it'll offer a lot of very interesting options to developers.

For a company that caters to such a dedicated and particular fanbase, Cave has done an impressive job of innovating when it comes to hardware and interface technology in the last couple years. If somebody had told me two years ago that I'd be enjoying STGs on my iPhone I wouldn't have believed it.

Offline Daverost

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2012, 09:48:08 AM »
Where did you hear that RSG weren't doing more Cave games? That'd be a real shame.

I haven't seen it myself, but the information was second-hand from the shmup thread on GameFAQs's 360 board.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927749-xbox-360/62889408/704788132
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927749-xbox-360/62889408/704810372
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927749-xbox-360/62889408/704854378

Full topic is here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927749-xbox-360/62889408

Starts at post #172, but that's pretty much all that was important.

I couldn't find the article on their website (their search system is an absolute mess), so take that as you will. Like I said, "last I heard." It's pretty much hearsay until someone else confirms.

Offline Van_Artic

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2012, 01:57:37 PM »
Inbachi found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwtbYhV9Iqw

that portrait at the start gives me nightmares

Offline Shalashaska

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2012, 04:43:18 PM »
 :o at those patterns.  The final one is like a death mix of DOJ stage 3 boss' final pattern + DOJ Hibachi final pattern + some extra WTF thrown in.

It'd be nice if we could fight her via practice mode in the upcoming port for fun. I was sad I'll never be able to fight Zatsuza outside of Novice.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2012, 07:19:56 PM »
Inbachi was discovered a long time ago, but I think this is the first video of it. I'm impressed that you get 5 bil for beating the first form, and 10 bil for beating the second form. 15 bil on this boss alone is a pretty good incentive to fight it, at least for the non-EX ship types. It looks pretty damn hard though.
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Offline AweOfShe

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2012, 10:51:35 PM »
Hot damn, that's one hell of a fight. =D

Though, I doubt I'd be able to even handle Hibachi as it is, much less Inbachi. :laugh:
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Offline slateman

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2012, 09:26:37 PM »
My friend introduced me to DP/DDP via MAME a long time ago and I was *HOOKED*.

DOJ - Imported day 1.  Still my fave ever.

DFK - Had to wait until earlier this year to get it.  That was 9 years without a new DDP.  Waited 4 years from DFK's release to play it.

If SDOJ is available even a year or two after ('course I'm a broke fool hoping for localization) - that's AWESOME! 

SO psyched about this.  Cannot express how much.

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Offline moozooh

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2012, 09:45:45 AM »
Was there ever a time when Cave fixed arcade bugs in their ports?

Weren't a couple rare bugs fixed for Ketsui?

Besides, the two other counterstops are only achievable by flawless play throughout the entire game and one of them does require killing the TLB so they're not nearly as game-breaking as safely hoarding hypers for stage 5, executing a three-minute-long route, and going for the easiest of the three endings to seal the victory.
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Offline ptoing

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2012, 10:02:44 AM »
Ketsui was not ported by Cave tho, right?

Anyway, I doubt they will fix this bug thing in SDOJ. And anyone can say what they want, I think it is a bug. The fact that it jumps from what looks to be the signed integer threshold to the 9s looks very buggy to me. Also the fact that the amount of score you get from those 30 seconds of score boost totally negate even killing Inbachi for a measly 15+ bil points. Unless of course you can get that score rush and then kill Inbachi as well, to get that extra few points boost to get a WR.

Not that I am on the level to ever get there. I enjoy playing Cave stuff for survival and eventually for score in competition with myself, but it seems a pretty silly bug to me.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2012, 10:09:38 AM »

Besides, the two other counterstops are only achievable by flawless play throughout the entire game and one of them does require killing the TLB so they're not nearly as game-breaking as safely hoarding hypers for stage 5, executing a three-minute-long route, and going for the easiest of the three endings to seal the victory.

The score doesn't counterstop in SDOJ, though. So you're comparing apples with an orange.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2018, 07:03:41 AM »
I've been reading about the input lag in the port on some Japanese sites. The PCB, like (all?) SH3 games, has 2 frames of lag built-in. The port has this plus an extra 1-2 frames. However, if you turn "smoothing" off, this apparently removes at least a frame of the additional lag, making it feel much closer to the PCB.

In regard to slowdown accuracy, it has nearly all of the slowdown of the PCB, but it slows down in some additional sections, making it a hair easier overall (very similar to the Futari ports in this regard).
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Offline Monouchi

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2018, 08:04:23 AM »
Good info.
Im pretty sure I had more slowdown on the stage 4 boss on the pcb than when practicing on 360, but that couldve just been my imagination.

What I do wonder is how to position yourself on the first pattern in the pcb? (stage 4 boss)
On 360 practice there is a safe spot right in the front of the boss until the very last part of the pattern, but when trying the exact same thing on the pcb I got hammered.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2018, 07:17:48 PM »
I didn't know about the safe spot on the X360 version. I'll have to give it a try.

I tried playing with Smoothing on and then off, and yeah, I can feel a difference in lag there. Smoothing off is much better. I played it that way on a CRT many years ago, and as I've said before, I couldn't feel any difference from the PCB that way.
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Offline iconoclast

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2018, 04:10:23 AM »
I was never bothered by any input lag in this, but I've always played with smoothing off and never had a PCB to compare it to first-hand. I asked KSG about it on twitter a long time ago and he basically said the same thing:

Quote
結論から言いますと360版の最大往生に遅延はあります。遅延を軽減する為にスムージングをOFFにしたり余分なウィンドウは一切表示しないようにしたりしていますが、それでも陽蜂戦の勝率は下がってます。
私は遅延にそれほど敏感ではないので360版も良い練習になっていますが、人によってはプレイする気が起きないくらいに感じるらしいです。

"To get straight to the point: yes, there is lag in the 360 version of Saidaioujou. You can reduce it by turning off smoothing, and getting rid of unneeded windows, but for me it drops my success rate against Hibachi."
"I'm not that sensitive to lag, so it's still good practice, but some people apparently feel the lag so bad that they don't feel like playing the port."
(translated by adverse)


What I do wonder is how to position yourself on the first pattern in the pcb? (stage 4 boss)
On 360 practice there is a safe spot right in the front of the boss until the very last part of the pattern, but when trying the exact same thing on the pcb I got hammered.

I haven't played in years, but I think this happens because in practice mode, starting from boss will always makes him open with the exact same pattern, but in a real run, it's going to be aimed/spread randomly. I remember this screwing me up too.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2018, 09:35:09 PM »
I've been playing the 360 port a lot this past week. I'll play it right after or right before MFBL God Mode (360), which I've set to 1 frame of lag (the PCB has 2). And I play SDOJ in tate with smoothing ON (no extra windows). I can't feel any difference in lag between SDOJ and MFBL. I thought there was less with smoothing off, and maybe there is a tiny amount, but I can't really feel a difference in a run (I guess I didn't test it enough before when I claimed there was a noticeable difference). Smoothing ON looks so much better on my monitor, so I'll stick with that. Keep in mind my Dell U2414H monitor has 4ms of total input lag, which is nearly CRT-level.

I wonder if the input lag was mainly a problem before the patch. I know several things were messed up pre-patch, including the extra windows causing slowdown in the game.

On a different note, I think it would be great to have a "black label" of this game released on the eXA hardware with the graphics and sound of the X360 version, with various BL tweaks added. For example, it would be cool to have a 2-loop version of this game, with only one ship type available (Expert type).
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Offline Monouchi

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2018, 03:16:14 AM »
Im all up for a SDOJ BL that would incorporate more bullet cancel enemies in stage 1-4...so the scoring was as fun as in stage 5 now.

Offline SWZ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2018, 10:48:51 AM »
I recently measured the lag of the port on my hardware setup at 4.8 frames. This was with the smoothing set to ON and the input display window ON. For comparison, I measured the Futari port using the exact same setup and testing methods at 1.8 frames (frame delay set to 0V in the settings). I was unaware that the smoothing setting can reduce the lag. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to test it again with the smoothing off.

Offline Monouchi

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2018, 11:19:03 AM »
Please do, that would be very interesting. :)

Offline EOJ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2018, 04:30:37 PM »
I recently measured the lag of the port on my hardware setup at 4.8 frames. This was with the smoothing set to ON and the input display window ON. For comparison, I measured the Futari port using the exact same setup and testing methods at 1.8 frames (frame delay set to 0V in the settings). I was unaware that the smoothing setting can reduce the lag. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to test it again with the smoothing off.

Since 0V on Futari is zero lag (I don't play on that setting due to the screen tearing), and the PCB setting is 2 (frames), the SDOJ port with smoothing ON adds 1 extra frame of lag in comparison to the PCB. Echoing monouchi's comment, it would be great to see if there is any lag reduction with smoothing off.

Do you have any other ports? It would be informative to test, for example, the Espgaluda 2 port.
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Offline SWZ

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Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou [Cave 2013, JP X360]
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2018, 09:54:50 PM »
I recently measured the lag of the port on my hardware setup at 4.8 frames. This was with the smoothing set to ON and the input display window ON. For comparison, I measured the Futari port using the exact same setup and testing methods at 1.8 frames (frame delay set to 0V in the settings). I was unaware that the smoothing setting can reduce the lag. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to test it again with the smoothing off.

Since 0V on Futari is zero lag (I don't play on that setting due to the screen tearing), and the PCB setting is 2 (frames), the SDOJ port with smoothing ON adds 1 extra frame of lag in comparison to the PCB. Echoing monouchi's comment, it would be great to see if there is any lag reduction with smoothing off.

Do you have any other ports? It would be informative to test, for example, the Espgaluda 2 port.

Unfortunately I do not have any other ports at this time as I do not have a Japanese X360. I will retest SDOJ sometime this weekend.