Author Topic: Thoughts On Novice Modes?  (Read 535 times)

Offline slateman

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Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« on: April 09, 2018, 10:47:14 AM »
I've been a bit out of the loop the last half decade or so.  Since Cave is my fave developer, I didn't follow the scene too much after DFK and SDOJ, with the exception of shitty mobile ports. 

But back when novice modes were first being added, I recall a general sense of distaste within the community. 

However, both my lack of skills and my absence from shmups means a return to play can be rather daunting.  (I have to say, cave-stg's return has inspired me and I've been playing a lot more lately!)  This casual approach coupled with an intermediate skill level means novice mode is just perfect.  Futari's novice maniac mode is a blast to play and 1CCing games are now within reach when compared to the 'when hell freezes over' likelihood prior to novice mode options.

So, while some of you can 1CC games normally, I wonder what percentage of this community is made up by people like me.  And I wonder if people still frown on novice modes in games.  Are they good or bad or are you indifferent towards them?

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 11:28:42 AM »
My thoughts on them:

-terribly named, they should be named something cool instead of easy or novice which just makes you feel like a newbie and has to take out some of the satisfaction of a clear "I won! No wait, I only cleared easy mode.

-some games need them and some don't (subjective but I think games that are stupid hard like Dangun really need them while most games don't and would benefit more from another mode type)

-generally can make your skills improve slower / in my experience you will beat a normal mode quicker by practicing with the difficulty turned up as opposed to down

-if they lead to more sales then I shouldn't complain about anything

Offline Monouchi

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 11:14:06 PM »
Good for introduction and casual players.

Personally I have never touched them as I only want to play the original game, heck Im almost the same on Arrange modes, the only arrange mode I have played is Ketsuipachi.

Offline dan76

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 01:39:10 AM »
Yeah.. I used to scoff at them, but recently I've been mucking about with novice Mushi Ultra and novice expert Saidaioujou. These are a good challenge or warm up before hitting the proper modes. I don't think they help me get better, but I enjoy them and that's important. Also, scoring goes out the window with novice modes so you can just dodge and blast.

Deathsmiles handled the naming better because playing at level 1 is a novice mode but it was included in the main game. Imagine if all Cave games followed that path. You would still feel a scrub selecting level 1 but at least it would be a clear in the real version. Tricky.
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Offline slateman

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 11:02:17 AM »
I enjoy the input, however I must laugh.  All three of you have 1cc in your sig or have a YouTube channel showing off 1cc replays. 

Of course, that's not surprising on such a dedicated forum.  However, it always makes me feel like such a scrub!

But I agree with Muchi Muchi Spork - if it leads to more sales, brings more players in and doesn't limit the audience to the hardcore, then it's good. 

It's still funny: Novice Expert!  Only in our favorite genre would that even make sense.  But I love it. 

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 11:48:14 AM »
Well, I think you mentioned before you haven't cleared a game but managed some perfect chaining. That could be your whole problem. If I tried to clear games in a way where I had to score close to perfectly on each stage before getting my first clear I'd probably never beat anything but Deathsmiles.

Offline slateman

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 12:33:43 PM »
Ah, that was back in 2004-2005 when I was just DOJ obsessed.  :) 

I became a lot more casual after that.  By that I mean "survive at all costs".  Remember, that was level 1 of DOJ, not quite the most rigorous of stages! 

Nah, I simply never got that good - which is OK.  I love Street Fighter but I'm a 40% win-rate kind of guy.  That's why I was curious on the hardcore fans' thoughts on novice modes. 

Offline EOJ

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 02:11:52 PM »
I think the novice modes got better over time. The early ones, in Futari and Espgaluda 2, are not very good. The difficulty was reduced too much and the bullet patterns are bland. But in SDOJ, for example, they are pretty good. Novice Expert is a decent and fun challenge. I attribute that to the fact Yagawa programmed it.  ;)

I think generally, if you want to get better at these games, start with 1CCing the easier games on default arcade settings, rather than going for the novice modes. Deathsmiles is a great example. The Mushihimesama Original modes are also excellent for this.
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Offline Monouchi

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 10:59:10 PM »
If I tried to clear games in a way where I had to score close to perfectly on each stage before getting my first clear I'd probably never beat anything but Deathsmiles.

Very much this.
First I go for the clear and learn the scoring system enough so I can get the extends.
By studying superplays and to finally get that 1cc gives me more insight into the game and its scoring, this always changes my look on the game. Some for the better and some for the worse.

The novice modes are not how the original design was thought out to work, in that sense I feel that I dont get the real design idea of the game if i would play those modes.

Also as EOJ says, start with the easier clears like DS, Espa or AK. Then continue upp the difficulty ladder.
For about two years ago I couldnt 1cc Espa.

Offline dan76

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 03:45:43 AM »
But in SDOJ, for example, they are pretty good. Novice Expert is a decent and fun challenge. I attribute that to the fact Yagawa programmed it.  ;)

There is a quote from Yagawa saying that he thought Saidaioujou was too difficult. I can't remember from where, and it may have been an off hand remark, but yes, the fact that he handled the novice mode does somewhat legitimise it.
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Offline emphatic

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Re: Thoughts On Novice Modes?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2018, 01:42:32 PM »
But in SDOJ, for example, they are pretty good. Novice Expert is a decent and fun challenge. I attribute that to the fact Yagawa programmed it.  ;)

I think generally, if you want to get better at these games, start with 1CCing the easier games on default arcade settings, rather than going for the novice modes.

I came into this topic to post something very close to this. ;) SDOJ Novice Expert is wonderful.