Pink Sweets ~ Ibara Sorekara

[EOJ]

Released 4/2006.

[EOJ]

New Kasumi ALL vid (B type) by GER:

http://www2.dokidoki.ne.jp/ayame/trash.htm

It's the top set of 7 files. Forgot to post this a few weeks ago, and didn't see anyone else post it, so here you go. Have yet to watch it, but it's probably similar to GER's other Pink Sweets vids.

[jpj]

it's cool he posts vids, but low-rank runs are so boring   :?

[Plasmo]

I didnt bother to post it because its more or less exactly as boring as his other low rank videos. The only good part is where he dies very early on during the stage 5 boss fight and still manages to beat her. :shock:

[EOJ]

I've been playing this a lot the past couple days, and thought I'd post my progress in case anyone is interested. With my current "high rank" strats using Lace, I can end the first three stages with these scores fairly consistently:

st1: 900,000 (usually it's a bit under this)
st2: 3,000,000 (my best is 3.1mil)
st3: 5,000,000

So I'm getting a bit closer to YOS.K's scores (3.7mil st2, 6mil st3). I jack the rank up much higher than I used to early on (I have an elaborate system of rapid B use), and I have found a safe pattern through the first three stages using it. It's worth it for the score boost.

I've also discovered some things about the rank levels - there are definitely two levels of rank, one seems to increase only with boss milking, the other increases with everything else (bombing, medalling, rapid B, etc). The boss milking rank appears to affect the onset rank of subsequent bosses and midbosses (number of bullets, level of bullet strength, etc). This rank can also lower if you die multiple times, while I don't think the other rank lowers at all.

I put in quite a few credits today.  I had THREE runs (2 with lace, 1 with Shasta) where I triggered the final 1UP for the infinite lives on the st3 boss only to die from a bomb before I could pick it up. So frustrating. It's harsh as one death and you have to start all over. Anyway, I'm aiming for a 12-14mil ALL with Lace, and maybe a 10+mil ALL with Shasta. I wish more people would play this game (the way it's meant to be played). It would be nice to have some competition!

[jpj]

sorry dude, i haven't played it at all in months    or doj for awhile, which i really need to get to as well.  or mmp    or ketsui 

delete my account

[EOJ]

Maybe I should make some high rank infinite lives vids to spur on interest? 

[zlk]

Post some videos! 

Is it possible to trigger the infinite lives bug without autofire? 

[hermosaguy]

Wow, I was actually going to request if you could post some videos last night and here are people beating me to the question!  Yeah, this game is driving me insane. I really need to figure out the Cloud stage...which to me is the WORST stage in all shooting game history.  Unnecessarily long and super cheap!

[Plasmo]

Is it possible to trigger the infinite lives bug without autofire? 

Of course it is. Not even remotely fun and really painful but yeah, it is.

Videos would be awesome btw! Go for it EOJ!

[EOJ]

OK, I'll try to make a vid. I can only do it with my digital camera, so no direct feed unfortunately.

[jpj]

nice one dude.  i will get round to playing this game (down with food poisoning at the moment  )

[jpj]

okay, so i did the dirty deed, and flipped on invincible 

i'm really not sure what to think here...  i got an M with lace (no special power-up because i'm lazy, i just turned 'A' on and didn't bomb except st6 and 7 boss, and i dropped the medals twice or thrice), but i think this is really putting me off this game.  it essentially boils down to a danmaku, with a big-ass hitbox, raizing medal chaining, and infinite lives...    hmm

i'm gonna have a crack at the other modes as well, although i wasn't getting much points from the 3rd midboss in stage 6 (normal mode), from milking destructable bullets.  maybe it's the lack of special power-ups?

and that last boss...  that rainbow spam pattern usually looks pretty bad-ass.  at devil rank, it looked like an animated gif file running at 2 frames a second 

not sure what to think here...

[EOJ]

I wouldn't use invincible as a measure for how the game is actually played by the pros - it's impossible to play at high rank the whole way without dying and losing your special power up. The more you die, the less harsh the rank gets in the later levels (which also means less of a score). Focus on learning how to trigger the infinite lives. Until you can do that, the rest is more or less irrelevant.

[jpj]

i understand that, but i just don't think it will be a game i can enjoy.  perhaps score attack mode.  i'm gonna have a look at the 2nd loop (just left 'A' on and came out for a smoke while it clears the first loop for me  ).  like i said, my issue is that it turns into a danmaku shooter, but without an appropriately sized hitbox, and then medalling thrown into the mix for good measure. 

[EOJ]

You're right, this is definitely a danmaku. That's one reason why I like it so much. 
The ability to slow down your ship speed
during boss fights is a good compensation for the hitbox size (especially with lace).

This is a game that requires a lot of time. A lot of time to trigger the infinite lives, and a lot of time to learn stages 4-6 after you've trigger the infinite lives. I've easily put in over 100 hours (over 2 years), maybe as much as 200 hours. If you don't feel like putting that much time in, you'd be better off playing other games you enjoy.
This is a problem with PS - it's one of the most unaccessible shooters ever made.

[jpj]

i've been so close on defaults many times, it's a heartbreaker.  but the game has some simply impossible patterns with auto-B/infinite lives, so the scores are based on ... who can die the least?    

2nd loop was quite interesting.  one of us should take a picture of the section after the stage 4 midboss during the second loop, just past the snakes.  there is literally a screen full of bullets; not even mushihime's TLB is that ridiculous

i'll have a crack at harder and score attack in a sec.  but i'm genuinely thinking that playing this the way plasmo did is not only cooler, but probably more fun too    (i'd swap "unaccessible" with "least playtested"  )

[EOJ]

i'll have a crack at harder and score attack in a sec.  but i'm genuinely thinking that playing this the way plasmo did is not only cooler, but probably more fun too   

Yes, if you like a game over every time you get to the end of stage 5 or the beginning of stage 6. If you ever trigger the infinite lives, I think you'll change your tune. It's a great feeling, and the rest of the stages become enormously fun. You'll also suddenly understand that this is how the game is 'meant to be played'.

[jpj]

i'm sure you enjoy futari ultra, even if you've never made it to the end of stage 5 

and i remember you said some folks on 2ch had claimed to had beaten it without the infinite lives, and with scores higher than what you've achieved thus far with the infinite lives.

anyways, just tried SA mode and harder mode.  harder is definitely the WR i now hold in highest regard    no special power-up again, and not always bothering to bomb patterns except for st7 and 7 bosses, and i got LESS than the WR ... 20.7m.  and there were so many points where i thought "this is impossible without a bomb!".  maybe once you hit the second half of stage 4, it turns into a bomb-fest, and and the points you lose by not killing certain enemies with your shot gets made up by the extra points from bombing all the suicide bullets?  21m must have had some luck, or be amazing.  dunno if it's the same guy, but AFO is the name of a blanka player in japan's sf2 scene 

for score attack, i bocked out on the boss with a 5.5m (lace).  does the special weapon make a big difference score-wise?  i'm only getting about half a mill from the 3rd midboss    tried a run with my beloved kasumi, and i couldn't even *hit* that fucker through the bullets    i don't like switching ship, but i guess lace isn't so bad..

i still feel that pink sweets is a total mixed bag.  my own thoughts are that after ibara bombed (no pun intended), he radically changed so many aspects that he created a whole bunch of new ones in the process.  not that ibara even had anything wrong with it (just not so popular)    you don't suicide to keep the rank low, now rank just steadily goes one way (great!  ).  you don't collect bomb fragments, you have an infinite charge bomb.  medals don't speed up and instead always drift slowly (the trouble is that your death explosion takes so long that if the last medal is half-way down the screen or lower, you'll lose the chain). 

i'm biased because i love ibara, but i really don't think anything needed to be changed with it really.  a toy-themed/parody sequel, and a SA mode, would be fantastic.  i play pink sweets and think even if score-based extends aren't in, if the rank dropped (!!) once you lost a life, you could take out the infinite lives thing, and have a perfectly decent game.  as it is though, the game just gets ridiculous.  and i can't help feeling that in cave's era of carelessness (DFK counterstop, futari getting a 1.5, as well as a BL, galuda 2 glitch), this game was put out with little to no proper play-testing.  i mean when you're playing extended mode, are you really having fun when every 2 minutes, it's death... death... death... death... death...   if i was cynical, i'd think it was more about adding to the "1CC glory"

great soundtrack though 

i'll try some more runs tomorrow on SA and try and improve, and then i'll go back to defaults and try some runs with lace, and try and get the infinite lives with shasta.  i'm not giving up on it just yet 

[EOJ]

and i remember you said some folks on 2ch had claimed to had beaten it without the infinite lives, and with scores higher than what you've achieved thus far with the infinite lives.

Yeah, a couple guys. Probably the same guys who can 2-ALL DDPDOJ and get 20mil in Battle Garegga.
But the fact that ultimately their scores cannot come close to the infinite lives scores makes the effort completely futile.

One level of rank does lower with multiple suicides, by the way. I've mentioned that before. Play it on multiply mode instead of invincible and you'll see a marked difference.

I've cleared Extended on defaults, and the rank wasn't that high in the second loop (not as high as you're describing). Then again, I died a lot in the end of the first loop, lowering the rank.

And yes, of course, you should be using the special power up all the time, because that's what all the WR scores use.

I disagree with the 'little to no play-testing' comment. Putting aside the fact this game had a long loke test (over a month), with tons of feedback from players before the release, I think Yagawa knew exactly what he was doing here. The whole game is basically an extreme parody on the rank he refined so much over the years. This doesn't play like Ibara at all, and I'm thankful for that. It's distinct, and unique. And ultimately, I think it's a much better game than Ibara, in every regard.

Finally, I absolutely agree that AFO's 21mil in Harder mode is an incredible score. One of the most impressive scores in any Cave game.

[jpj]

unless there was anyone at the loke test hooking up an autofire button to the B button, or were randomly hammering it like mad whilst playing, i don't think having infinite lives being triggered in the 3rd stage of a 7 stage game was thought of.  and it makes me wonder why cave offered a pcb "fix" to remove this "feature".  and then another fix some months later to fix the freezing problem.

deliberate or not, i don't think the direction for this game was well thought through.  are there any other arcade games that give you infinite lives in a 60+ minute game?  i can't believe you think pink sweets is better than ibara   

[EOJ]

and it makes me wonder why cave offered a pcb "fix" to remove this "feature".  and then another fix some months later to fix the freezing problem.

I've explained this before. This first revision you refer to also fixed the freezes, it wasn't "some months later" (though the later revision also removed the freezes but kept in the infinite lives).

You can believe what you like, of course. Two very strong pieces of evidence point to the infinite lives being a feature: 1) the latest revision (the only one Cave will upgrade your PCB to) fixes all the "bugs" but leaves it in, and 2)Extended mode is impossible to clear without the infinite lives (actually, I'd bet Harder mode is impossible as well). You can't get any clearer than that. Not to mention if you ask Cave they'll tell you it isn't a bug, and Arcadia magazine has written that it's not a bug! But let's ignore all that, because this game isn't like Ibara. That makes more sense.

And no, AFAIK there aren't any other games that have a condition to meet that gives you infinite lives like this. Hence my previous "distinct and unique" comment about this game.

i can't believe you think pink sweets is better than ibara   

Yes, it's quite hilarious. Maybe because I understand how to play the game, and you clearly do not?

EDIT: jpj has chosen to leave the forum after this exchange. Hence his "guest" status.

[GaijinPunch]

The only thing certain about this game is that you two are about the only one's who care enough to argue about it.  I've played 2-3 credits of it myself.  Enough for me.

[EOJ]

The only thing certain about this game is that you two are about the only one's who care enough to argue about it. 

Absolutely true.

[hermosaguy]

I've put blood sweat and tears into this.  When I get to the cloud level I about want to break my board.  I think every tiime I post in a PS threads I always bitch about it, hehe.  I know CAVE has to have a better build of this game lying around somewhere...I'd love if they would let people send their boards in to a more accessible version.   I think I'll play this more after I finish Oboro

[EOJ]

You're right, this game would have benefited from an "easy mode" of some sort. This is one reason why it did so poorly in the arcades.
It's an elaborate puzzle that can only be mastered and appreciated by someone of relatively high skill, who puts in a lot of hours of practice.

If I could have a black label of this, I'd like:

1)Easy mode (maybe with 5 stages and no rank at all)
2)Show the hit counter in the upper left, everytime it hits 2500 you'd know when a 1UP would pop out (and while we're at it, reduce the 1UP number to 2000).
3)Make enemies that give more points with the bomb add to the hit counter (instead of subtract) when you kill them with a bomb
4)Maybe a rank meter like IKBL?
5)Add in a "rank increasing" button (button C or D). You'd flash as you held it, and your rank meter (see 4)) would slowly increase.
6)Less recovery time from a death
7)Start out fully powered up with a special power up, never lose it (even after a death), and only have the power up items switch from forward to wide shot.
8)Have something flash on the screen when you trigger the infinite lives, to shut up all the people who keep perpetuating the myth that it's a bug! 
9)Give me a dedicated change speed button (C or D)!
10)Make roses you pick up on the ground reduce your rank meter. Deaths would also reduce the rank more than they did before.

That would be pretty awesome.

[RAR]

EDIT: jpj has chosen to leave the forum after this exchange. Hence his "guest" status.

What's his deal?

[zlk]

I have decided to try pink sweets for a few months.    Give me some advice on what character is easiest to trigger the infinite lives feature.  I have no autofire setup on my cab.  Any other advice would be appreciated.  When I used to play I could get to the stage 3 boss on my first man, then get crushed by it.  Rarely did I get to stage 4. 

[EOJ]

I have decided to try pink sweets for a few months.    Give me some advice on what character is easiest to trigger the infinite lives feature.  I have no autofire setup on my cab.  Any other advice would be appreciated.  When I used to play I could get to the stage 3 boss on my first man, then get crushed by it.  Rarely did I get to stage 4. 

Shasta is the easiest, though without rapid fire it will still be tough. You can get the infinite lives at the start of stage 5, but no missing Stage 4 is not easy.

If you avoid medals and keep the rank low, it shouldn't be too hard to get the infinite lives with any character, provided you can get the fixed 1UP in Stage 5. Utilize the game's built-in practice mode, and once you practice stage 5 over and over, you should find a safe path.

If you have any questions during your PS adventure, just ask.

[croikle]

And no, croikle, I didn't ban jpj.

I realized this, I was just trying to make a joke at our friend Icy's expense. That wasn't clear enough, apologies.