Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]

[EOJ]

but a non-bugged ALL - *with* a decent score, would have a lot of merit, don't you think?

Indeed it would. The problem is almost no one can do it, and not many people play this game seriously to begin with. I don't think there's more than a handful of Japanese dudes who can do it (or who bother to do it, since they know the infinite lives will help them get a higher score). And apparently none of them have recorded anything. I also doubt any of them play the game anymore. We can always hope some guy will pick the game up again, turn on a recording device, and share it with the world, though.

These guys DID give a lot of details about their runs, so I know what they did in order to manage the rank during their runs. I just lack the skill to replicate it.

GER tried hard, and released one vid (stage 5 w/ Lace) that shows full scoring without the infinite lives. Again, his best seems to be a C score that just came short of a clear. But he's not in the same class as the top scorers in Japan.

Same thing with many Raizing games - a couple guys tore the game apart in ways we can barely imagine to be possible. But no vids, so it largely remains a mystery. Heck, even look at the 300mil MMP 2-ALL scores. I can't imagine how those are possible really. The Rafute guy said he got 168mil on the first loop. That's without dying once! Not to mention the 130mil he got on the second loop (where you no longer get score based extends).

[jpj]

yeah, LAOS has a 29 mill on batrider and i haven't seen anything close to that.  a 17 mill surfaced a year or so ago, and before that the highest i'd seen was 13-15 mills on some team scoreboards.  the only info i could unearth was that he had the previous record of 21 mill, but it wasn't a clear, and it was something related to the rank being so high it's virtually impossible.  he also has a 900k on super puzzle fighter, and i can only get about 250k    it sucks when there's only a handful of people who know how it's done, and they keep the secrets to themselves

i heard back from nagoya: no joy    not really a surprise, but i gather they weren't very friendly because of the gaijin factor as well 

i guess we've figured some stuff out already, but it would be nice to speed up the learning process.  all i can think is there's an area before the last boss on stage 6 where's it's possible to get over a million per minute with leeching, hence how you can have over 6 mill in SA before the last boss with two minutes on the clock (it's about 9 minutes usually to that point, but 5 mins + 6 minutes of score-based time extends, minus two minutes of leeching).  2 mill from the first couple of forms, which takes about 2 mins, and then 2 mins for another 500k+ for the clear.  i just can't see what that leeching point is

it's a shame YOS.K doesn't have a blog, because like you say, he's still currently active in the STG scene..   

[EOJ]

it's a shame YOS.K doesn't have a blog, because like you say, he's still currently active in the STG scene..   

Yeah, also he was pretty active on the 2Ch PS thread back in 2006-2007, posting his progress. I'll have to check, but I think he was the guy who got the 16mil ALL w/ Lace without the infinite lives.

YOS.K is a beast, he was an awesome DDPDOJ player as well.  I think Kaneda saw him playing PS at Hey one day, the full run actually.

[jpj]

DOJ eh ..     i didn't know that

i remember kaneda saying he saw a K,xxx,xxx score at HEY.  if that's the case, then that was the world record run 

[Plasmo]

Yeah, posts on 2Ch. But they were detailed, discussing aspects of the runs, how to maintain a manageable rank, etc, so I'm inclined to believe them.

That makes me curious, link plz. 

Same thing with many Raizing games - a couple guys tore the game apart in ways we can barely imagine to be possible. But no vids, so it largely remains a mystery. Heck, even look at the 300mil MMP 2-ALL scores. I can't imagine how those are possible really. The Rafute guy said he got 168mil on the first loop. That's without dying once! Not to mention the 130mil he got on the second loop

I don't know anything about MMP, but since we have that 250mill 1-ALL replay, I think 168mill without dying doesn't seem THAT much of a mystery? I think that much higher 2-ALL scores are possible (350mill?), but it's too dificult to one life the first loop and not many are even trying. The first Rafute 2-ALL score in Arcadia was only a few months ago!

[EOJ]

The PS 2Ch archives (and archived threads for all the other games) are here:

http://stg.arcadeita.net/main.html

You have to sift through all the crap yourself though (and remember, I've already done that and posted most of the useful info from there in this thread).

I don't know anything about MMP, but since we have that 250mill 1-ALL replay, I think 168mill without dying doesn't seem THAT much of a mystery?

It's a 240mil replay, and it's with Ikuo. To get close to that score you have to suicide A LOT on the bosses to milk them. Getting 168mil with Rafute with NO suicides is hard for me to imagine. To put this in perspective, ISO only gets like 115mil at the end of the first loop on the superplay DVD. Watch that and try and figure out where another 50mil are coming from if you can't suicide. 

I think that much higher 2-ALL scores are possible (350mill?),

I really doubt that, since you can't suicide-boss milk.

[EOJ]

I was looking through some Arcadias today, and noticed there is a commentary page after the hi scores that talks about some of the best runs.
There is one for YOS.K's 20mil Pink Sweets run with Lace. They state he "did things such as skillfully utilize the brief invincibility right after a death in order to cancel enemy bullets and gain points". Is there some trick to this I'm not aware of?? Must be something you can due after you trigger the infinite lives trick.

They also give his scores at the end of each stage:

Stage 2: 3.7mil
Stage 3: 6 mil
Stage 4: 9 mil
Stage 5: 10.8 mil
Stage 6: 17 mil

How the heck do you get 3.7 mil at the end of stage 2? Wouldn't you have to jack the rank up to max with the rapid-B in stage 1??

I just played a full run on "invincible", and my final score was P,309,890 (25,309,890). My end of stage scores were:

Stage 1: 900,000
Stage 2: 3,300,000
Stage 3: 5,700,000
Stage 4: 9,000,000
Stage 5: 12,000,000
Stage 6: 22,000,000
Stage 7: 25,309,890

Note how similar my scores are to YOS.K's stage 2 to 4. What did I do? I held rapid B all throughout Stages 1 and 2. I don't think it's possible to score this high without doing that. From Stage 5 on my score beat YOS.K, but I'm sure he died many times during that, losing the Special Attack over and over (which adds to your score a good deal).

Also note the 10mil on Stage 6 - full max rank is the answer we've been looking for, in order to get 9+mil scores in Score attack. You just need the skills to pull it off.

[jpj]

i knew putting it on invincible was a good idea    just didn't wanna wipe my scores just yet 

so where's the video?   

what effect/differences did you find playing on invincible and max rank?

[EOJ]

One thing I noticed is the rank maxes out a point, and doesn't go any higher. Basically, by the middle of Stage 2, I didn't notice any additional rank increase, even though I kept holding rapid B throughout the stage. I held it in various parts of subsequent stages, but again, no further increase. If you use Lace and a Special Attack power up, this is definitely manageable. But expect a similar challenge to figuring out Mushi's Ultra mode.

I got the 4th extend (in essence, triggering the infinite lives) on the Stage 3 midboss, but got the first 1up to pop out of the Stage 2 midboss. The interesting thing is there is so much slowdown on the Stage 3 midboss if you have the Special Power up and Max rank w/ Lace, it's actually not very hard at all. The nice thing about invincible is that you flash every time you take a hit, so you can use the mode to plan strats. I got through the fight with only a couple hits, but those could be avoided if I were more careful.

You also definitely need to bomb all of the snakes in Stage 4 when you are at max rank - even a special power up shot won't be enough to take those out without getting hit.

[jpj]

and what about stage 6?  did the max rank + special weapon yield any more significant points from the first three midbosses, do you know?  obviously in SA mode your medals start at 100, and it will take a while to get max rank as well.  but then again, there are some enemies which are worth more if you bomb (not many) and i guess you probably held down A for most of the stage?

additionally, try some credits in Harder and SA and see what happens...      i am very curious to what a max score could be.

if you missed it, there's a link in the opening post to cave's official site which shows what point values you get from an enemy depending on shot/bomb.  interesting to see what the theoretical max scores are 

[EOJ]

I'm way ahead of you - I purposely let a medal drop at the very end of stage 5, resetting my medals to zero for the start of stage 6.  I did already have the special power up and max rank, so it's not perfectly comparable (but it's close).

I got at least 2 mil on the last midboss pretty fast, just milking his first pattern over and over (to the side, so my shot won't hit his body too much). There are so many bullets at max rank, it's just a boatload of points. And I don't think i got hit at all, due to all the slowdown, it made it fairly easy to position myself.

I know about the enemies you need to bomb, and I tried to bomb all of them in this run.

I really need to try a score attack run in invincible, to see if I can pull off similar scoring with a time constraint.

[jpj]

nice touch.  you get double the cred because your avatar is on point 

why oh why did i borrow deathsmiles...  my tv is yoko and i've only played a dozen credits on it, when all i wanna do is play pink sweets and doj 

i know it's an ask, but i think it would be great if you could make a video of this perhaps.  while it is a cheat, i think a vid showing pink sweets at max rank is sorely needed.  counter-balance all the boring shite videos out there, and i imagine all the crazy bullet patterns going on, it's pretty wild

edit - shit, i'm blind.  it's time to bring that PS avatar back out of retirement 

[EOJ]

Just did a SA run with Lace on invincible. 6.3mil before the boss, 8.8mil final score with over 1min left on the clock. 

It really is all about the max rank. I just held Rapid B throughout the whole stage (felt like the rank maxed out around the last midboss).

Mystery solved.

[EOJ]

Pic of the score attack run (managed to get a pic before the complete screen faded away):

[jpj]

haha i was hoping that's why you briefly went  

you should take a snap of the P score replace IKD for the main page  

why do you imagine the harder mode record is higher by the way?  obviously it would be a lot more difficult.  maybe YOS.K didn't have any motivation to play normal lace..?  

[EOJ]

Alright, I did Harder mode, and pulled out a Q,5 (26.5mil) score. I don't think much more than 27mil is possible. So consider it the theoretical max.

Pic right after the final boss:



The complete screen:



And a couple pics of Harder mode at max rank. Isn't it lovely?




I like the last one so much I think I'll make it my new avatar!

[Plasmo]

Seems like the mystery indeed is solved! Thanks very much EOJ, fantastic work!

[markedkiller78]

The top score on my pcb is a Cxx,xxx,xxx.

I've managed just over 1/10 of that lol. I dont like score attack very much

Having played the normal mode again I think I've got better in general. I Managed the Stage 3 boss on my first credit. I've yet to trigger the L3 tank 1ups (I'll practice the stage later) but I think I've got a L4 / L5 in me yet

Is it even possible to trigger the infinite lives on L4 without auto B?

It's certainly possible to get 5 lives on stage 3 without auto B, but how far away is that second score / bullet extend :?

[jpj]

that first pic of harder mode looks pretty hectic, but still do-able.  then i realised that underneath that purple pattern, was another dense pattern of bullets in dark green..    dear god

so the whole 80 mins per run thing wasn't so much about excessive boss-milking, but more about mass slowdown 

are you gonna experiment with other characters at all?  i still hate lace's ship design and can't bring myself to abondon shasta    shasta's bomb would be much better at absorbing boss patterns for small gains, but i'm sure her tick damage is lower, so galford's 19.8mill is somewhat more impressive than YOS.K's 20 mill, just because i imagine it's closer to shasta's theoretical max

what's your plans now?  Pink Sweets Max Rank Demonstration Video ??   

mark: you basically need to get four 1ups without a death.  with no auto-B you can get the first, with some heavy milking of destructable bullets, around the end of stage 2/early stage 3.  then get the one in the tank halfway through stage 3.  then one from the midboss, done by destroying his arms, and cancelling tons of destructable bullets.  as for the last, you *may* get it at the end of stage 4.  the trouble is, at this point the rank is very high, and stage 4 doesn't have any enemies that spew lots of destructable bullets.  and stage 5 is the same.  however, there is one fixed extend towards the end of stage 5, if you destroy all of the egg turret things; and again, still be on your first life.  before the auto-B was expounded upon, most of were chasing the infinite lives by the end of stage 5.  very very tough

[markedkiller78]

Are there not 2 tanks in stage 3 that give lives?

I gan get the fixed extend (type thing) in the first half of level 3.

The game is mental hard

[jpj]

nah, only three fixed extends in the whole game.  stage 3, by making the one tank roll over the other one.  stage 5 egg turrets.  stage 7 (same technique as stage 3)

and yes, mental hard.  funnily enough i had tried a lace run with auto-B from the start, but couldn't make it half-way through stage 2 without a death.  it's like ultra, but with a fat hitbox 

[Plasmo]

nah, only three fixed extends in the whole game.  stage 3, by making the one tank roll over the other one.  stage 5 egg turrets.  stage 7 (same technique as stage 3)

Wrong.
Since there are three tanks in a row in stage 7 you can get 2 extends from them. It's very difficult to pull off, but possible. I already said that in my first post btw.

[EOJ]

mark: you basically need to get four 1ups without a death.  with no auto-B you can get the first, with some heavy milking of destructable bullets, around the end of stage 2/early stage 3.  then get the one in the tank halfway through stage 3.  then one from the midboss, done by destroying his arms, and cancelling tons of destructable bullets.  as for the last, you *may* get it at the end of stage 4.  the trouble is, at this point the rank is very high, and stage 4 doesn't have any enemies that spew lots of destructable bullets.  and stage 5 is the same.  however, there is one fixed extend towards the end of stage 5, if you destroy all of the egg turret things; and again, still be on your first life.  before the auto-B was expounded upon, most of were chasing the infinite lives by the end of stage 5.  very very tough

You can trigger it at the *very beginning* of stage 5 without rapid B. You just have to milk the st4 boss for awhile, it spews out a lot of destructible bullets in a few of its patterns. Still pretty hard to do, though.

[jpj]

i stand corrected said the man in orthopedic shoes.
cool, try a low-rank run then, without milking destructable bullets and bosses, and trigger the infinite lives in stage 7 

[Imhotep]

I enjoy this thread a lot, thanks for all the investigative work.

[EOJ]

so the whole 80 mins per run thing wasn't so much about excessive boss-milking, but more about mass slowdown 

I think it's a combination of both. He (Galford) must be doing more milking than me because my runs are only about 60min long. I guess you also have to add in all the time added due to lots of deaths after you trigger the infinite lives.

[jpj]

for real.  and using shasta, it probably takes a couple of minutes longer to kill each boss

for practicality, does it save scores when you use invincibilty?  who does the score table for PS here, is it me?

[EOJ]

No, it doesn't save scores done in invincible or multiply. This is quite a nice programming feature. 

Yes, you're in charge of the PS thread here. 

[jpj]

They state he "did things such as skillfully utilize the brief invincibility right after a death in order to cancel enemy bullets and gain points".

any more idea what that was referring to? 

[EOJ]

They state he "did things such as skillfully utilize the brief invincibility right after a death in order to cancel enemy bullets and gain points".

any more idea what that was referring to? 

Yes, I recently figured this out. It's quite helpful on bosses - you gain points  (a surprisingly large number of points) by hovering on top of bosses during certain attacks (especially those with the big lasers), using the few seconds of invincibility you get right after you die. You need to time it right so that you move away from the boss right before your invincibility wears off.