Author Topic: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]  (Read 35269 times)

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #180 on: April 25, 2019, 06:54:18 AM »
Thanks for the tips! I'll have to practice the last boss some more. Also that link on Archer's site is great for the rank info.  :righton:
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Offline Monouchi

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #181 on: April 25, 2019, 07:26:36 AM »
With Special you mean that beta version on Mame? Rank behaves the same there. I think this was debunked some time ago.

Power ups and charged RC are both not too bad for rank. Check out this link for some exact numbers: http://archerstg.web.fc2.com/pinksweets/bitterrank.htm

What's your approach to the non inf lives clear? Do you plan to max out the rank eventually? If yes, then don't worry about it at all and let it max out around stage 4 or 5. If you want to go low rank non inf lives, then try to copy the routes you find on youtube (plenty of videos available), which in short means: don't pick up anything at all.

It was more about activating the special ver. (Dip switch 2 and the hold A+B to start vs not starting the special ver.)
Not sure what he means.

I do study that page but when going full power up and having the RC fully charged I get max rank sooner in my route.
In my route (Non inf live clear) I max out at st6 boss. If I max out earlier the cone assault at end of stage 6 is impossible.
I pick up one spread shot and then get homing RH in stage 4, yesterday I reached st7 midboss with 4 lives. (And then I missed the easy 1up in st7 tank....)
So getting closer.

Trying now to optimize my route so I get a second item extend at start of st7.
Just noticed that absorbing bullets with the charged RC increases the -counter for item extend. (That is subtracted from the + counter.)

Offline Plasmo

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #182 on: April 25, 2019, 08:17:50 AM »
Quote
Just noticed that absorbing bullets with the charged RC increases the -counter for item extend. (That is subtracted from the + counter.)

Where did you get that info from? I highly doubt that this is the case.

Offline Monouchi

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #183 on: April 25, 2019, 08:37:37 AM »
Quote
Just noticed that absorbing bullets with the charged RC increases the -counter for item extend. (That is subtracted from the + counter.)

Where did you get that info from? I highly doubt that this is the case.

Its from the shmups PS secrets thread:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43152

"in 1UP item release involved two counters:
- number of enemies killed by Main Shot (shown on screenshot in 1st post)
- number of enemies killed by Rose Cracker (shown below of ^^^)
then (Main_Shot_kills - Rose_Cracker_kills) becomes bigger than specific constant, which is 2500 in 2006/04/06 versions and 3000 in XX/XX version - next spawned item will be 1UP.
so, if player used Rose Cracker a lot and killed a many enemies using it - he will get 1UP much later, if ever."


This counter can be found above the item counter in the debug menu and it increases when absorbing bullets with your charged RC and when your RC destroys bullets. (Counter does not increase when RC does not hit anything.)

I wondered why I didnt get my second item-extend, even when I milked st4 boss and used almost no RC on stage 5 boss and then milked st6 boss.
I checked the counters and I clearly passed 2500 (9C4)...though I had also used the RC heavily in st5 and st6 and that counter was also high.

Will do some more tests.


Offline Plasmo

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #184 on: April 25, 2019, 08:44:11 AM »
It's probably a mistake or at least not present in the regular version of PS. Absorbing regular bullets with the aura of your RC is totally fine. Otherwise I would never get the extend after fully absorbing the timeout patterns of st4 and st5 midbosses.

I have never read about this anywhere in the Japanese strategy guides as well (Arcadia mag or online).

Offline Monouchi

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #185 on: April 25, 2019, 08:55:08 AM »
What do you refer to as Regular ver?  :)
Im testing this in the four dot ver in Mame, will check this at home too on the pcb.

Im not so sure that only the +item counter gives you the 1up, Ive passed 2500 but dont get my second item-extend.

Offline Plasmo

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #186 on: April 25, 2019, 10:12:32 AM »
It's easier to conceptualize as is stated in the main post. Even if there are two counters internally, simply view it as one counter that goes +1 for every enemy/bullet destroyed with Shot and goes -1 for every enemy/bullet destroyed with your RC. Once that counter reaches 2500, a 1UP pops up.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #187 on: April 25, 2019, 07:01:33 PM »
The four dot revision apparently has a slower rank increase compared to the other 2006/04/06 versions. That's what it says on the Arcadeotaku wiki anyway. (I did not notice this when I owned it, but if someone tested the rates of rank increase and compared them across versions, then I cannot argue with that.) It may have other changes as well.

I don't know if this affects the 1UP appearance rate other than lower rank = fewer destructible bullets = longer wait for 1UP to appear, but it is something worth considering.

Anyway, I wouldn't practice on that version in MAME.

Plasmo is correct about everything else discussed in regard to the normal 2006/04/06 one dot master ver.

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Offline Monouchi

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #188 on: April 26, 2019, 01:19:32 AM »
It's easier to conceptualize as is stated in the main post. Even if there are two counters internally, simply view it as one counter that goes +1 for every enemy/bullet destroyed with Shot and goes -1 for every enemy/bullet destroyed with your RC. Once that counter reaches 2500, a 1UP pops up.

Maybe so, but I am interested in the actual numbers. (Its also kinda what I work with daily.)
Also confirmed on the one dot version that the - counter increases when absorbing shots.
Now to test if the 1up is set when the 2500 value is passed or if it needs to be active when getting the 1up pick-up. (Not passed with the -counter.)


EOJ:
I also red about the slower rank increase on AO, we debunked that earlier with the RC, I can test some more in the one dot version and see how the rank behaves on other parts.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #189 on: April 26, 2019, 01:27:46 AM »
I'm not very sure about this "-counter", but absorbing bullets with the RC has no effect on the +counter, unlike killing enemies/destructible bullets with the RC, so it is not of any importance for 1UP appearance.
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Offline Monouchi

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #190 on: April 26, 2019, 01:36:41 AM »
I'm not very sure about this "-counter", but absorbing bullets with the RC has no effect on the +counter, unlike killing enemies/destructible bullets with the RC, so it is not of any importance for 1UP appearance.

No, the +counter only increases with killed enemies/shots, though it doesnt Decrease (Just not affected) when killing enemies/shots with the RC. (That is added to the - counter above, though the RC fired is also added to some other counter below the + counter. Absorbing bullets is not added to that one)
Just tested it in the one dot ver.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #191 on: November 03, 2019, 06:34:26 PM »
I recently discovered the harder-mode insert coin trick described by YOS.K in this twitter post from 2014:

https://twitter.com/YOSKQ/status/490862055470006272

If you insert a coin while the harder mode ranking is on the screen (during the demo), and press start, you get some extra bullet patterns on the bosses in Normal mode (which you can milk for more points than in a regular run). Some of these are new swarms of bullets, others -- like the Stage 4 boss's 360 degree blue bullet attack -- become much denser. I don't notice any difference in the stage patterns yet. I didn't know about this before my latest 15.2 mil score. I'll start doing my runs using this glitch. I haven't played Extended mode in over 10 years but I do remember it had slightly harder bullet patterns than Normal mode. Maybe this glitch just gives you the patterns from Extended, without the loop?

I have tried doing this in FREEPLAY mode (just pressing start on the harder mode ranking page) and it doesn't work. You actually need to insert a coin. :o

It sort of reminds me of the tutorial bugs in Espgaluda 2 and Deathsmiles, both of which are needed for WR scores.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #192 on: January 01, 2020, 04:18:39 AM »
I haven't played Extended mode in over 10 years but I do remember it had slightly harder bullet patterns than Normal mode. Maybe this glitch just gives you the patterns from Extended, without the loop?


I tested out Extended and Harder modes today. Neither has the same bullet patterns as Normal mode with the "insert a credit on the Harder mode ranking page" trick. A good way to test is to play through until the Stage 3 boss. Only Normal mode with the trick produces blue suicide bullets from the bomb explosions in the last phase. However, I have a vague recollection of these suicide bullets being in the second loop of Extended (on the same boss pattern). Not sure if my memory is right here. Anyway, hidden trick or glitch? Hard to be sure, but the bullet patterns do seem to be distinct and well-placed in Normal with this trick, so I struggle to see how it could be a glitch. I'd expect more random garbage patterns everywhere if it were just a glitch, or patterns straight from Harder or Extended.

I also got 3.3 mil in Harder mode today just goofing around and winging it (which is a lot higher than my old score), so if I put some effort into it I wonder what I could muster...
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Offline Plasmo

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #193 on: January 01, 2020, 04:30:16 AM »
Triggering infinite lives in Harder mode has yet to be done by one of us. Sounds like a great goal for 2020? :righton:

If I remember correctly, the Harder mode WR score was done with Shasta. Galford's stage 3 video might be a great reference.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #194 on: January 01, 2020, 04:36:46 AM »
Harder mode WR was with Lace. That’s who I have been playing with. Triggering infinite lives with Lace in this mode is something I can’t wrap my head around. I have to bomb so much the zan counter never gets near 2500.
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Offline Plasmo

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #195 on: January 01, 2020, 07:54:42 AM »
Harder mode WR was with Lace.

This is very useful to know! Did Arcadia state that somewhere? Triggering infinite lives with Lace in Harder is even more ridiculous. I'm not even gonna try. Wtih Shasta it looks kinda feasible at least.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #196 on: January 01, 2020, 02:31:15 PM »
I don't have the Arcadia issue. Checking online, I found a Japanese site that listed the score, but not the character used. I could only find this Korean page that lists Lace:

https://namu.wiki/w/%EC%A0%84%EC%9D%BC%EA%B8%B0%EB%A1%9D/%EC%BC%80%EC%9D%B4%EB%B8%8C

Same story with the Score attack score by DGN. I know that was done with Lace, but most other sites don't mention that (except the Korean one). The Korean site does cite this forum for info, so it is possible the data is circular.

The Harder mode score was published in the April 2008 issue of Arcadia. If anyone has that perhaps they could check for us.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #197 on: January 01, 2020, 05:27:51 PM »
I played a few more credits of Harder mode today. Best score was 3.8 mil, game over before the ST3 midboss. Next credit I did a no miss to the ST2 boss, but lost three lives there in the hectic final phase, ending my credit with 3.2mil. It's a really fun mode! I can consistently end ST1 with 850-900k.

New goal is to make it to ST4 and get over 5mil.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #198 on: January 01, 2020, 08:38:37 PM »
HARDER MODE update: Got up to 4.22 mil (ended at ST3). Still haven't made it to ST4, but I am getting close. I also got 987k at the end of ST1, my best yet in this mode.  :righton:

I tried playing this on the port today and it was horrible. Slowdown missing about 50% of the time makes it very difficult. I got a bit over 3mil, but couldn't make it past the ST2 boss. I don't think I'll play the port anymore.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #199 on: January 02, 2020, 07:04:49 PM »


I tested out Extended and Harder modes today. Neither has the same bullet patterns as Normal mode with the "insert a credit on the Harder mode ranking page" trick. A good way to test is to play through until the Stage 3 boss. Only Normal mode with the trick produces blue suicide bullets from the bomb explosions in the last phase.

Well, I played another credit of Harder mode, made it to the ST3 boss at max rank, and the blue suicide bullets were there. However, I inserted a credit on the Harder mode ranking page for this run. So, it may be that you can use this "get extra bullet patterns trick" for Harder mode as well? Either that, or my previous run wasn't at a high enough rank. I'll do some more testing.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #200 on: January 03, 2020, 01:32:40 AM »
Current hypothesis: I don’t think you need infinite lives to get a very high score in Harder mode, and you don’t need it to clear the game. Moreover, playing a route without infinite lives may lead to higher scores in this mode. If AFO did use Lace, I bet he didn’t trigger infinite lives, or if he did it was in stage 7 and only done with fixed 1ups.
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Offline Plasmo

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #201 on: January 03, 2020, 06:37:26 AM »
I have a strong feeling you might be wrong on that. But I don't have the supporting proof either, as I have only very little playtime with Harder.

The thing is that even with my no infinite lives route, the score wouldn't even remotely come close to 20 million. Harder has more bullets, sure, but this simply doesn't add up for me. Also, due to the suicide bullets, some valuable enemy formations would need to be killed with RC instead of Shot, which would make you lose a lot, particularly on stage 6.

On the other hand, doing the math for Harder 21 million with infinite lives is easily possible. The only problem is triggering it with Lace. Even if the Harder mode WR was done with Lace, Shasta can probably get it easier while having the same scoring potential more or less. That's why I was so surprised you said it was done with Lace. It's an odd choice.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #202 on: January 03, 2020, 02:10:55 PM »
Now that I think of it, you could trigger infinite lives with Lace in Stage 5 if you got two 1UPs from the ST3 midboss, as Galford does in his video. So this is probably what AFO did. It is more difficult with Lace (than with Shasta) to do this on the ST3 midboss, but I've done it several times in Normal mode, and Harder is not much different on this midboss.

I still think Lace must have been used by AFO. If you watch Galford's video with Shasta, he only has 2.2 million at the end of ST3, which is not enough to reach 21mil at the end of the game. With Lace, I can no miss to the ST3 boss with nearly 5 million at the same spot (and surely a WR-level player would have at least 500k more at this point). The problem is with Shasta I don't think you can milk the ST2 boss at max rank like you can with Lace. Its final pattern is crazy in Harder, with two fast drone drops and two laser blasts each round. Lace can manage with her large bomb blast, but with Shasta it would be a lot harder to kill the drones.

Also, with Shasta, if you are playing at max rank by ST3, you need to trigger the infinite lives by the end of that stage, or at the start of ST4 at the latest (in Normal or Harder). Otherwise you will get destroyed at the snakes in ST4 for sure. Her bomb can't handle it, and neither can her shot. But if this is the requirement, you can't milk the ST2 midboss or boss properly, losing a few million points in the process. See the problem?

The thing about Harder is, at max rank, even if you try to kill the bosses you'll usually time them out, or very near, because they have so many hit points.  This gives you a lot of opportunities to milk the larger number of bullets in this mode (something like 2x Normal mode, I'd estimate).

You can use shot for scoring, even in ST6, if you use bomb blasts as temporary shields. This is a technique I use in different parts of the stages to maximize score.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #203 on: January 03, 2020, 02:22:29 PM »
Also, see this post for the original source that mentions Lace as being used in Harder:

http://cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=66.msg8569#msg8569

That link also shows the best score Galford got in Harder mode with Shasta was 12 million. If that's the best he can do, I don't think anyone else would do nearly double with Shasta.

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