Author Topic: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]  (Read 29119 times)

jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #90 on: March 22, 2009, 10:01:58 PM »
 :-\ i just thought of something...  arcadia (don't ask me why) will always list scores based on their progression through a game.  so an ALL is always better than a run which isn't, regardless of score.

this probably explains why the game was so badly received and why there are so few decent replays out there.  we all know the game is an absolute bitch when you're playing it properly.  what's the point of grinding out a 7-8 mill score where you die on stage 5 or 6, when someone else can clear the game by missing all medals with a score of 2-3 million, and be listed as a better score !?  which i guess is why there are so many low-rank clear videos  :-\

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #91 on: March 22, 2009, 10:04:17 PM »
People were doing the infinite lives trick like a week after the game was released (judging by the posts in 2Ch archives), thus ALLs were piling up left and right. All of the Normal mode scores in Arcadia used it, and they were very high within months after release. So I don't see your point really.

"Playing this properly" means triggering the infinite lives. Extended mode is impossible without it, for example.
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #92 on: March 22, 2009, 10:09:48 PM »
not all boards have the infinite lives though.  and i'm not talking specifically about score submissions  :rolleyes: rather the ethos that a clear is always better than a non clear regardless of score

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #93 on: March 22, 2009, 10:12:19 PM »
The only boards without the infinite lives are the May 2006 revision, and very few of those were made (try finding one today, good luck at that).

If you're going to play the game seriously, and submit scores to Arcadia, you know you have to play on the same field as the rest of the guys.
Thus the infinite lives are a must. But that is also why the game wasn't received well. Many Japanese players very much dislike this feature of the game, and its necessity of use in order to compete with the top scorers.
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #94 on: March 22, 2009, 10:19:39 PM »
according to plasmo's list arcadia hadn't even published any pink sweets scores until august

my point is that if it weren't for that system, would people like GER and others go to the effort of comprehensively making such boring low-rank clear videos?

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #95 on: March 22, 2009, 10:26:02 PM »
So, you're saying the whole Ethos of "clear is better than score" can explain stuff like Ger's vids? Quite possibly. I think Ger was playing on the May 2006 revision though, which lacks infinite lives, and he apparently couldn't clear it when playing for a full-on score (I think he got a C score, but no clear). So that was his only option really.

Getting an "old school" clear on this game is indeed an achievement, and I think that's what all those vids show, even if they have to keep it at low rank. I think it's viewed as a different achievement from the "WR scores" in the game, as those basically involve turning over half of the game into score attack mode.

We also must keep in mind there are some in Japan who enjoy "beating the game the easiest way possible" or "with the lowest score" possible. I saw ABI released a vid of him going through Stage 2 of Espgaluda with a score of like 20,000, the lowest he could possibly muster, and he was quite proud of this achievement. Not sure if that's related to the PS vids though.

Personally I find the "old school" low rank clear harder to do than the infinite lives triggered clear just because it's so freaking boring. I've tried it, but I always run into something and die, because it's so boring I started to daydream.  :oogle:
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #96 on: March 22, 2009, 10:32:08 PM »
exactly.  i don't think i've ever gotten past stage 4 doing one of those runs just because it's so damn boring.  why would you go to the effort of making a video of you doing that through the whole game, and then once for each character? 

even interviews with other players, you usually hear them say they don't even really look at scoring until they can clear a game.  and from what i remember of galford's blog, it wasn't too clear if arcadia would or wouldn't be accepting bug scores straight away.  this game really got off to a bad start  :-\

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2009, 10:39:26 PM »
This game, indeed, got off to a bad start. It was misunderstood, they released a revision which totally messed up the playing field (and was quickly withdrawn), and so on. But look at what the Japanese players have accomplished. Like any Yagawa game, it takes a great deal of time to come to terms with the intricacies of the system, and it can take years to master. I still see new scores pop up in Arcadia, 3 years later! And I think we'll keep seeing them for years to come.

Wouldn't it be a surprise to see a vid of YOS.K getting a 20mil ALL w/ Lace, and see him use rapid B to max out the rank on stage 1?
Actually, I wouldn't be that surprised. ;) I'm pretty sure this is exactly what you need to do (compare Tsumanne's Stage 3 midboss Lace vid where he has 4.2mil, the infinite lives before the fight starts, and the rank is crazy insane).

I have to say, it seems like Arcadia should have split "rapid B" from "no rapid fire" scores into two different tables, a la Mushihimesama. I don't think it's possible to get the same scores without rapid B.
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #98 on: March 22, 2009, 10:50:00 PM »
the mystery of how those scores are achieved, specifically SA mode, are driving me to distraction.  especially if you think yos.k's normal mode lace score is beatable..  i guess it just irks me that such a heavy impotus is put on getting a clear, not many people would have been motivated to play for score.  they were the same with DOJ, with 600-700 mill scores being listed higher than 1.5 bills just because the player died on hibachi  :-\ 

i'm gonna mess around with invincibility turned on in the test menu, and then i think i'll sell my board

i shouldn't post at 3am..  :whyioughtta:

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #99 on: March 22, 2009, 10:55:12 PM »
/i guess it just irks me that such a heavy impotus is put on getting a clear, not many people would have been motivated to play for score. 

Well again, anyone (in Japan) seriously playing for score knows if they don't trigger the infinite lives it's time to enter the reset code and start again. This game actually has less of a problem with the whole "Clear is best" mentality, compared to something like DOJ, because you can trigger the infinite lives in stage 3! Thus you don't have to worry about a death late in the game ruining a good score. A skilled player can gain very good consistency in triggering the infinite lives, letting him focus on score planning for the rest of the stages.

I will have this game again tomorrow, and I'm going to jack the rank up and see what I can do. :righton:
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #100 on: March 22, 2009, 11:01:02 PM »
word.  the may revision yeah..   ;)

did you get any further with the secret test menu?  (holding A, B, C while pressing test??)

i'm just in a bad mood because i've spent four hours playing the same two levels in doj over and over  :-X

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #101 on: March 22, 2009, 11:02:45 PM »
the may revision yeah..   ;)


No one plays it, you can't buy it, CAVE basically doesn't want you to know it ever existed. Yeah.  ;)

Quote
did you get any further with the secret test menu?  (holding A, B, C while pressing test??)

You just have to hold A+B. I fiddled with stuff but never saw any effect. Weird.

Quote
i'm just in a bad mood because i've spent four hours playing the same two levels in doj over and over  :-X

That doesn't sound fun! Reminds me of late nights practicing a level of Ikaruga over and over.
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #102 on: March 22, 2009, 11:13:23 PM »
cool. well i'm interested to see how you get on with it  :)  hopefully i'll hear back at some point from the guy in nagoya.  i'll probably find out galford commited suicide and took his dvd to the grave  :laugh:


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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #103 on: March 22, 2009, 11:15:57 PM »
Can you imagine the bidding war if someone put Galford's DVD up on YAJ? I shudder to think how much I'd bid for it.
INH needs to realize what a great potential product they're missing out on! They release shit like a Radilgy superplay DVD and not this?
Give me a break.  :whyioughtta:
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2009, 11:26:45 PM »
i got a response about a year ago from INH when i emailed them about making a pink sweets dvd  XD  said it was a good idea, and they'd look into it.  RAM only knows of the vids on nico, and KHD only knew of GER's vids  :-\ he even used an online translator (jp -> english) to send me a reply  :)  my email (in japanese) to galford ages ago was an offer of 10,000 yen if he would put it up on the b.board tracker  :o

radilgy isn't that great for a superplay, but TZW is a bit of a legend in the street fighter 2 community  =D

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2009, 11:43:39 PM »
We'd probably have better luck tracking down YOS.K. He recently (well, 10 months ago) released a vid of his DDPDFK 1.0 counterstop on nico. If someone paid him to record a PS run, he might do it.
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Offline markedkiller78

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #106 on: March 23, 2009, 07:44:51 AM »
Did you manage to trigger the infinate lives trick jpj?

Seeing as I can't sell my kit, well I don't want to knock the price down uirther as it's going to be stupidy hard to replace I'm going to start playing this again.

How should I start out playing this one, low score / low rank, or just go for an all out attack & jack the rank up?

I've read the strat guides, but It's still an utter bastard hard game.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 09:22:10 AM by markedkiller78 »

Offline Plasmo

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #107 on: March 23, 2009, 08:28:42 AM »
I really regret, that I've never played it with the infinite lives trick. After all, it seems that it's supposed to be played with this trick.
Maybe I'll buy the game again + an autofire stick. I like the game's style and music very much, but playing it "the old school way" felt like running against a wall, more like Mushihimesama Ultra. (I should've made a replay showing you how crazy the rank is in stage 6 even if you've played a LOW RANK game with no lives in stock the first 5 stages!) Everytime you insert a credit you KNOW that you're going to fail, because it IS impossible to win. It's a very demotivating game, I kinda understand all the hate it recieves. :-\


Quote from: jpj
according to plasmo's list arcadia hadn't even published any pink sweets scores until august

The list isn't quite complete, I'm missing issues exactly around that time. I'm sure they've listed more scores before august.

jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2009, 08:54:12 AM »
i got very close the last couple of times i played it.  using shasta, i had a few goes where i just needed one more extra life to do it, but always *something* would go wrong.  other times, because you're trying to milk everything destructable, i'd get nuked by a stage 2 midboss  :whyioughtta:

first thing though dude, you'd need to set up an auto fire button for B weapon.  i don't know if you'd really wanna go to the hassle, but ideally, you'd want
A, B, B+

my advice would be to play score attack with a fast character with a good spread shot (i used to use kasumi by selecting her with start).  that's a lot of fun, and it's basically just old-school medal-chasing ... but the level is massive!

reset code is the best thing ever


Offline markedkiller78

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #109 on: March 23, 2009, 09:27:40 AM »
Nah, your right it's too much hassle setting up an Auto Fire. Especially when the game kicks my ass so bad.

The board I have, has been cleared a few times. I guess I'm giving it an early retirement seeing as I can't clear L3 all the time & L4 never!

So Score attack is the mode to play then

jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #110 on: March 23, 2009, 09:40:14 AM »
The board I have, has been cleared a few times.

1CC'd?  or do you mean the settings?  :)

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #111 on: March 23, 2009, 10:00:05 AM »
1cc'd. I'll check tonight as I can't remember the score for the life of me.

I really have such mixed emotions about this game. I like the art, music, enemies, don't mind the mechanics, but knowing that I will never clear it grates with me.

I'll see how score attack feels

jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #112 on: March 23, 2009, 10:02:27 AM »
nice one  :)  score attack is a lot fun.  moreso than the main game  =D

jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #113 on: March 23, 2009, 11:06:34 AM »
god, can you imagine if there weren't an infinite lives trick..?  we'd be looking at top scores where people never collect anything and get 4-5 mill but get listed as top because they reached the end  :-\

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #114 on: March 23, 2009, 01:47:46 PM »
god, can you imagine if there weren't an infinite lives trick..?  we'd be looking at top scores where people never collect anything and get 4-5 mill but get listed as top because they reached the end  :-\

No, a few guys in Japan could score well without the infinite lives, so we'd still be seeing some impressive scores. The best scores I saw were a 16mil ALL with Lace and a 10mill ALL with Midi&Meidi. These were lower than the infinite lives scores at the time, so they never made it into Arcadia.

We'd never see any Extended mode scores though, and probably Harder mode scores nowhere near the level they are with the infinite lives.
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Gwyrgyn

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #115 on: March 23, 2009, 01:48:29 PM »
What do you need B+ autofire for in this game?

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #116 on: March 23, 2009, 01:50:48 PM »
It jacks up the rank (really fast). You need to use it to get the rank high enough to get the number of destructible bullets you'll need to trigger the infinite lives by the end of stage 3.

AFAIK I'm the only westerner who's done the infinite lives - I did it 5 times (4 in Normal mode (2 w/ Shasta, 2 w/ Lace) and once in Extended mode).
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #117 on: March 23, 2009, 02:05:21 PM »
god, can you imagine if there weren't an infinite lives trick..?  we'd be looking at top scores where people never collect anything and get 4-5 mill but get listed as top because they reached the end  :-\

No, a few guys in Japan could score well without the infinite lives, so we'd still be seeing some impressive scores. The best scores I saw were a 16mil ALL with Lace and a 10mill ALL with Midi&Meidi.

are these scores you actually saw, or just posts on 2ch?

Offline EOJ

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #118 on: March 23, 2009, 02:10:19 PM »
Yeah, posts on 2Ch. But they were detailed, discussing aspects of the runs, how to maintain a manageable rank, etc, so I'm inclined to believe them.
There was a time in 2006 when a lot of posters there really took a stance against the infinite lives "bug" (as they called it), and worked together to discuss strats on how to beat the game with a high score w/out the infinite lives. There is a lot of great info there, and I've posted most of the juicy tidbits in previous pages of this thread.

Remember, just because you can't do something, doesn't mean some wickedly talented dude in Japan can't.  ;)
But as I've said before, it seems like clearing this game with full scoring without the infinite lives is on par with a DDPDOJ 2-ALL, in terms of difficulty. How many westerners have done that? Zero. No one even close really.

BTW the guy who got the non-infinite lives 10mi ALL with M&M is the one who stated Extended mode was impossible without the Infinite lives, so he gave up on the non-infinite lives (and I think the whole game) after that. He got to stage 2-1 in Extended (w/out infinite lives) and said the rank was so bad it was a complete joke.
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jpj

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Re: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide]
« Reply #119 on: March 23, 2009, 02:22:43 PM »
i dunno.  i'd need a twin galaxy referee to authenticate  ;)

The only boards without the infinite lives are the May 2006 revision, and very few of those were made (try finding one today, good luck at that).

If you're going to play the game seriously, and submit scores to Arcadia, you know you have to play on the same field as the rest of the guys.
Thus the infinite lives are a must. But that is also why the game wasn't received well. Many Japanese players very much dislike this feature of the game, and its necessity of use in order to compete with the top scorers.

i think that's about right, because you would know that you could never beat the arcadia scores, so why bother?  some players do things like double-plays, or Ino's giga wing 2 0 point play, but if you're doing it to show off, surely you would make it shown  ???  i can understand people not being fussed over recording infinite lives replays, because it doesn't show much merit (if you play with the sensibility that first and foremost, your objective is to clear the game).  but a non-bugged ALL - *with* a decent score, would have a lot of merit, don't you think?