Futari BL or Futari 1.5?

skykid · December 15, 2009, 04:58:04 PM

I've not played the port, but I do own a 1.5 PCB. I've heard the port is not an accurate reflection of FBL, so it's not going to help me to decide on whether or not to try moving to a FBL board in future.
Can anyone who's had experience of the arcade hardware comment?

Just so you know, I really love 1.5 original and Maniac, they're amazing. I do consider Ultra pretty much null and void though (too hard.)

Thanks for the advice!

Ast-Kot · December 15, 2009, 05:02:00 PM

If you want EOJ has opened a topic about that here:

http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=733.msg13053#new

skykid · December 15, 2009, 06:46:43 PM

Quote from: Ast-Kot on December 15, 2009, 05:02:00 PM
If you want EOJ has opened a topic about that here:

http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=733.msg13053#new

Sorry dude, should have been more clear. I'm interested in comparisons between the PCB hardware only - I want to know which people think is the better game and why. I'm not bothered about the port so much.

EOJ · December 15, 2009, 08:44:51 PM

I think this was discussed before here, but after searching the threads I can only find random posts here and there that are relevant.

I know this will sound stupidly simple, but the only way you can decide which game you like better is to play them both. It seems half the people I know that have played both prefer 1.5, and the other half prefer BL. In general, people who find ver 1.5 too hard seem to enjoy BL more.

Personally I prefer 1.5 by a wide margin. Better Original mode and much better Maniac mode. The only mode on BL that I find to be really good is God mode, whereas in 1.5 I love all three modes (Original and Maniac more than Ultra, though).

brentsg · December 15, 2009, 09:30:14 PM

Quote from: EOJ on December 15, 2009, 08:44:51 PM
I think this was discussed before here, but after searching the threads I can only find random posts here and there that are relevant.

I know this will sound stupidly simple, but the only way you can decide which game you like better is to play them both. It seems half the people I know that have played both prefer 1.5, and the other half prefer BL. In general, people who find ver 1.5 too hard seem to enjoy BL more.

Personally I prefer 1.5 by a wide margin. Better Original mode and much better Maniac mode. The only mode on BL that I find to be really good is God mode, whereas in 1.5 I love all three modes (Original and Maniac more than Ultra, though).

But if I did my homework correctly, you went through periods of time where you preferred BL right?

What about BL makes it less fun for you? Most of us are scrubs in comparison and this scrub seems to be enjoying the BL port.

EOJ · December 15, 2009, 09:35:43 PM

When I first got BL (the PCB) I thought it was the bee's knees. I probably did prefer it to 1.5 for a short time (don't remember really, but I wouldn't be surprised if I posted that).

BL is great for novices (I'll use this instead of the less friendly "scrub") and for pros. This is because for a 1CC it's probably more fun, but for a top score, it requires a ridiculous amount of skill. As I fall somewhere in the middle, I find 1.5 better.

There's something about BL Maniac that feels very light and empty to me. They tried to speed up and simplify the whole multiplier cash-in, but in the process they made the whole thing feel like Diet Coke. That's about as clearly as I can explain it.

BL Original, on the other hand, feels too fast and stressful. Constantly trying to rush gems, the killer rank that kicks in when you cross 100,000 on the counter, paranoid about dying or bombing as it kills your score, etc. Feels like I'm going to have a heart attack half the time I play it. Not my style.

I don't have any real complaints about God mode other than sometimes it feels like you're playing the game underwater.

skykid · December 16, 2009, 05:59:31 AM

Quote from: EOJ on December 15, 2009, 09:35:43 PM
When I first got BL (the PCB) I thought it was the bee's knees. I probably did prefer it to 1.5 for a short time (don't remember really, but I wouldn't be surprised if I posted that).

BL is great for novices (I'll use this instead of the less friendly "scrub") and for pros. This is because for a 1CC it's probably more fun, but for a top score, it requires a ridiculous amount of skill. As I fall somewhere in the middle, I find 1.5 better.

There's something about BL Maniac that feels very light and empty to me. They tried to speed up and simplify the whole multiplier cash-in, but in the process they made the whole thing feel like Diet Coke. That's about as clearly as I can explain it.

BL Original, on the other hand, feels too fast and stressful. Constantly trying to rush gems, the killer rank that kicks in when you cross 100,000 on the counter, paranoid about dying or bombing as it kills your score, etc. Feels like I'm going to have a heart attack half the time I play it. Not my style.

I don't have any real complaints about God mode other than sometimes it feels like you're playing the game underwater.

An excellent response and very helpful! I particularly liked the 'diet coke' analogy.

Hmm, I am loving both Original and Maniac on 1.5 - perhaps I'll just accept BL on the port that way it is, even if it is a little broken. Any other comments are welcome though - very few of us have been lucky enough to play the BL PCB, so it would be good to hear from those who have.

GaijinPunch · December 16, 2009, 11:44:03 AM

I'm a bit of a one mode man (I've only played Original a few times on either version, and Maniac on BL for a few days) so it came down to God Mode for me. A clear choice. I think I've played about 20 credits on Original and 10 on Maniac on my BL board. O_o But as EOJ said, it's all about preference.

adverse · December 16, 2009, 12:12:15 PM

I've come to appreciate 1.5 Original, and prefer it to Black Label.

But I still prefer BL Maniac and God mode to their counterparts in 1.5 so on the whole I lean towards Black Label.

SinHo · December 16, 2009, 03:08:43 PM

Even thou i only have played 1.5 10-20 time, I still have to say that BL is the better game. At least when it comes to Original mode, if you are unsure get 1.5 and try. If you don't like it, well just get BL. If you try BL first, you will only think 1.5 is slow and boring... Hence, give 1.5 a good try first.
When i tried DS the first time i just loved it, but after I bought MBL I sold DS as i realized that i will never play it again ...

Cant say anything about God/Ultra mode and Maniac, as i normally play BL original mode.

NR777 · December 16, 2009, 03:40:00 PM

Granted, I haven't played the PCBs, but based on my experience with the port ( and this has everything to do with scoring/gameplay mechanics ) I greatly prefer 1.5 to Black Label. Yes, BL allows for crazy multipliers in Original Mode, but I find scoring in it to be a chore. It takes point-blanking to a whole new level and requires a great deal of precision to score even moderately well. It just doesn't feel as manageable to me as 1.5 Original...of course, 1.5 Original would be perfect if I didn't have to constantly glance at the counter( this is unnecessary in BL ). God mode in BL is certainly more doable than Ultra in 1.5, but the Maniac-style scoring hasn't clicked with me yet. This is my completely non-expert opinion.

skykid · December 16, 2009, 05:42:24 PM

Well, fingers crossed I'll get a go on the port soon enough - that should at least give me a taste of BL. I absolutely love 1.5 original - it's manic as hell and I've become accustomed to not needing to look at the counter so much, even though I like the feature (didn't when I first played it though!)

Ultra is a write off unfortunately - just too hard - so I'm sure God on BL will be great by the sounds of things. I'll be interested to see which version I prefer out of Maniac though...

Ideally I need to find someone in the UK who's willing to lend me a BL board... No fucking chance.

NR777 · December 16, 2009, 06:15:25 PM

I'm actually starting to enjoy Ultra...it has a hell of a learning curve, but I can see my game improving with each credit.

TonK · February 01, 2011, 08:58:40 PM

SOLELY on Brentsg's pestering - I got a BL board kit coming.

I'll post my impressions tomorrow - i really hope BL is fun.

EOJ · February 01, 2011, 09:01:32 PM

Of course it's fun, everyone already knows that.

Whether it's better than 1.5 is different matter. Let us know what you think on that subject.

TonK · February 01, 2011, 09:04:41 PM

Quote from: EOJ on February 01, 2011, 09:01:32 PM
Of course it's fun, everyone already knows that.

Whether it's better than 1.5 is different matter. Let us know what you think on that subject.

Brent seems to think it is, but I really love 1.5.

Might have to let the "ooooh, shiny" effect wear off...

I like Deathsmiles better than MBL.

Both are great fun.

brentsg · February 01, 2011, 10:19:34 PM

Hahaha, well now that you put it like that I bet you hate it.

I will say that if you play Maniac and God then BL is better for sure, and if you play all 3 .. still BL.

If you play only for Original then it's more of a toss up.

Medal · February 01, 2011, 10:27:52 PM

Well...Apart from God, I prefer 1.5/1.0(1) to BL. Ultra's a great deal of fun, but it's a bit too difficult to be so precise every game. It takes a lot out of you. In fact, that sounds perfect. I wonder why I don't play it with my current schedule. Definitely prefer 1.X Original and Maniac to BL O/M, though. BL Original is a bit overboard with the wiggling. BL Maniac is cool, but I haven't scored out stages 3-5 of 1.5 yet, so I don't want to go and get myself into something that much more complex yet (and 1.5 and 1.0/1.01 are a better challenge than BL, with 1.5 being the best balance, I think). God is just plain cool, though. Most players aren't going to counterstop Ultra, but anyone can improve at a comfortable pace in God.

skykid · February 01, 2011, 11:06:16 PM

I ended up preferring 1.5 in the end. Been over this loadsa times though (think I even had a chat with you at some point Tonk.)

Be interested to hear your thoughts man, let us know.

Special World · February 01, 2011, 11:45:30 PM

I only have the port, so I'm not really gonna weigh in. I was just wondering though, what about 1.5 do you prefer over Black Label? For me, Black Label is a total sensory overload with some of the most exciting, visceral gameplay I've ever experienced in a shooter. I actually thought 1.5 was the perfect shooter, but after playing BL I haven't gone back much. I can understand how one might prefer 1.5 Maniac, as it's got a totally different style than Black Label, but Original seems harder to justify for me. God is much cooler than Ultra imo, but if you're good enough to play Ultra, then I guess that's the only place you can get your godly fix. I guess I mostly answered my own questions, but 1.5 Original remains hard for me to imagine preference.

skykid · February 02, 2011, 07:22:20 AM

Quote from: Special World on February 01, 2011, 11:45:30 PM
I only have the port, so I'm not really gonna weigh in. I was just wondering though, what about 1.5 do you prefer over Black Label? For me, Black Label is a total sensory overload with some of the most exciting, visceral gameplay I've ever experienced in a shooter. I actually thought 1.5 was the perfect shooter, but after playing BL I haven't gone back much. I can understand how one might prefer 1.5 Maniac, as it's got a totally different style than Black Label, but Original seems harder to justify for me. God is much cooler than Ultra imo, but if you're good enough to play Ultra, then I guess that's the only place you can get your godly fix. I guess I mostly answered my own questions, but 1.5 Original remains hard for me to imagine preference.

Dunno, just sounds kind of backwards. 1.5 is a much better original mode for me. I don't like the idea of getting right in everything's face all the time, and I much prefer the furious counter/shot switching in 1.5. It also has a much greater survival challenge. As someone mentioned, I think 1.5 original is the best balanced of all the Futari modes in this respect.
I don't like BL Maniac much at all.

I do consider Ultra 1.5 redundant, so if possible I'd swap this for God, which is very hard but at least manageable. Good thing I have the port.

Strider77 · February 04, 2011, 02:15:44 AM

Quotebut 1.5 Original remains hard for me to imagine preference.

Original mode PERIOD is hard for me to imagine a preference in either 1.5 or BL when compared to each ones' maniac mode and BL's God mode.

I didn't bother to much with original in either. But I really enjoyed maniac in both; God mode I MUCH preferred to Ultra and thought it was the best overall for score and a challenge (scoring is fun and a 1 CC is still challenging).

So the BL won for me, but I also much prefer that you don't have to really worry about the meeter up top in BL, it pretty much stays in the red when using C shot and I don't have to monitor it. It feels you can play it more by the seat of your pants then memorizing.

I played BL 1st so it could be that its just what seems "proper" to me and anything else just seems different. Overall I truly like BL more but if BL didn't exist, 1.5 would still be my favorite cave title.

I am not at EOJ's level though. But I have one CC'ed BL and 1.5's original in one sitting on both (neither seemed real rough for a 1CC), Maniac in BL I almost one CC'ed, last boss had about 15 percent of her health left. I have never really invested a ton of time with 1.5 in any mode. I'll confess I like the beefed up weapons in BL, everything dies quicker. I know alot don't like that but for some reason I really enjoy a game that has a quick pacing like that. Strider and Thunder Force for example. You can lay waste to the enemy, it still is challenging (Futari BL that is), just not as much. Still I dig the fact the bullet count is still higher and faster in BL. I REALLY dig the fact the multiplier fills much quicker and the CRAZY bullet cancels that you can achieve in GOD mode. The visual satisfaction from 30,000x multiplier when the screen is LOADED with bullets, then canceled is a guilty pleasure.... but it still helps make the game a ton of fun to me.

Overall it just seems like it's more streamlined and they trimmed off the fat and not a "diet" soda per say in my eyes. But EOJ's analogy and mine are both kinda the same in a way, it's up to the player if they see the glass half full or empty as far as personal opinion goes. The quick pacing combined with god mode win's the vote for me.

I'd be curious to see a poll on what version was played 1st and what version winded up their favorite. Like I said before, I played BL 1st so it's what seem "right" to me.

QuoteI don't like the idea of getting right in everything's face all the time

I imagine Ketsui doesn't do much for you then. I guess I could see that.

QuoteIt also has a much greater survival challenge.

I thought it was definitely easier but not THAT much easier, it wasn't like comparing maniac to god or ultra, easier. It's the fact it managed to be a bit easier via quickening the pace and still managing to throw more at you quicker. Along with the huge increase in raising the multiplier.... it's more stream lined to me, or just plain fun and tempting to play over and over.

But if you are looking for a challenge then God is harder than either maniac modes and still manages to be easier than DOJ, so I imagine it shouldn't scare you away since you like tackling or trying to 1CC DOJ? I dunno.... really it seems to be a toss up among the fans though. Says something good about Futari either way and both version's of it.

QuoteBrent seems to think it is, but I really love 1.5.

Might have to let the "ooooh, shiny" effect wear off...

I like Deathsmiles better than MBL.

Both are great fun.

I thought I saw somewhere that you got a BL, what did you think about it? What made you prefer vanilla DS to the MBL out of curiosity?

@Brent... it's funny my 1st run in with you that i remember was me sarcastically dismissing and bashing i-phone ports but as time has gone on, I usually wind up sitting on the same side of the fence as you as far as cave's titles go. As long as folk's senses' of homur stay intact on these forums you can have a lot of fun disagreeing then finding out you wind up on the same page in the end most of the time. I've wondered a few times it you took my i-phone bashing to heart and still had a small axe to bury on that one

TonK · February 04, 2011, 07:40:33 PM

O.K. After UPS screwed me for a week, I finally own it.

First impressions:

- Original is great. i love the 3,000 hit switch, the buzzer, and the overall feel of the game. I do like the slower enemy bullets, so I can let them stream, then shoot for a good sum of gems. The boss fights I need to get used to, I actually died on the stage 1 boss from not paying attention - he fired out bullets quickly at me, so my strategies won't work.

- Maniac is fun. It's very rewarding if you know how to play it correctly, which I don't as of this moment - 1.5 had a good feel to it, but the large sums of gems in BL really hit the spot. As of right now, I like 1.5's Maniac for simplicity.

- god mode is very fun, I'm no good at Ultra and I got to stage 3 on my first sitting in god mode. It's actually very fun and allows you to feel like a pro without being one. Definitely more enjoyable than Ultra.

So, I'm giving the edge to BL right now.

I really like it.

HVL · February 05, 2011, 05:45:47 AM

Quote from: TonK on February 04, 2011, 07:40:33 PM
- Original is great. i love the 3,000 hit switch, the buzzer, and the overall feel of the game. I do like the slower enemy bullets, so I can let them stream, then shoot for a good sum of gems.

Apparently you haven't hit 100,000 on the counter yet.

I prefer 1.5's Original and Maniac to BL's counterparts. They're much better in the "technical" department and not as chaotic as BL.

Due to sucking, I prefer God over Ultra too.

TonK · February 15, 2011, 10:57:43 PM

Quote from: TonK on February 04, 2011, 07:40:33 PM
O.K. After UPS screwed me for a week, I finally own it.

First impressions:

- Original is great. i love the 3,000 hit switch, the buzzer, and the overall feel of the game. I do like the slower enemy bullets, so I can let them stream, then shoot for a good sum of gems. The boss fights I need to get used to, I actually died on the stage 1 boss from not paying attention - he fired out bullets quickly at me, so my strategies won't work.

- Maniac is fun. It's very rewarding if you know how to play it correctly, which I don't as of this moment - 1.5 had a good feel to it, but the large sums of gems in BL really hit the spot. As of right now, I like 1.5's Maniac for simplicity.

- god mode is very fun, I'm no good at Ultra and I got to stage 3 on my first sitting in god mode. It's actually very fun and allows you to feel like a pro without being one. Definitely more enjoyable than Ultra.

So, I'm giving the edge to BL right now.

I really like it.

Well, even though I really liked BL, I had to go back to 1.5.

I cleared it on my 3rd try.

Felt very unrewarding, as I cheered like a crazy person when I cleared 1.5.

It's a great game - just not for me... Got my 1.5 kit back.

So 1.5 it is.

I'll pick up a loose PCB one of these days... I like it enough to have around.

EOJ · February 15, 2011, 11:00:41 PM

Have you cleared Maniac 1.5 yet? That one is really satisfying every time I 1CC it.

Strider77 · February 16, 2011, 03:43:04 AM

QuoteHave you cleared Maniac 1.5 yet? That one is really satisfying every time I 1CC it.

Ditto... I one credited both 1.5 and BLs originals in one sitting on the same day. Maniac... that one you'll pat your back on a bit.

TonK · February 17, 2011, 01:21:59 AM

Quote from: EOJ on February 15, 2011, 11:00:41 PM
Have you cleared Maniac 1.5 yet? That one is really satisfying every time I 1CC it.

I'm actually gonna work on it.

I'd love to clear it.

Strider77 · February 18, 2011, 02:54:29 AM

Don't let it psyc you out. I'd give it a go on the BL before you get rid of it. It's a really fun mode in either version.

kyuzo · February 28, 2011, 01:28:39 PM

From the total scrub perspective, I'm actually liking BL better than 1.5 right now, mostly based on original (though I haven't fired up my 1.5 in probably six months or so)

To give an indication of how competent/incompetent I actually am: I'm currently getting mostly 150-160 mil on my runs generally, ending somewhere around the stage 3 boss or during stage 4, mainly due to lack of consistency. I only have one cave 1cc under my belt (if it even counts), which is a dfk 1-all (well, omote 2-3 or whatever...)

With that out of the way... I actually really like the "get in their face" mechanic a lot. It causes me a lot of deaths, but it's the most "advanced" scoring system that's actually accessible for me to find out about on my own. With DFK for instance, I ended up just watching superplay videos for any chaining patterns because it wasn't really feasible to work on my chaining patterns myself, especially with the limited amount of time I have to play. With BL original I can actually try to find ways to improve my score much more easily without just copying what a video does exactly (I still watch superplays, but it's more for inspiration than for direct copying) I'm not saying I'm hitting 75 mil on the first stage magically by myself or anything (I tend to get 45-50 on runs where I don't kill myself) but it's still more fun to me

As for the difficulty, it feels easier to me sometimes, but then again, stage 3 or specifically the stage 3 boss are pretty mean as soon as the stage counter hits 9999...