Author Topic: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences  (Read 3175 times)

Offline EOJ

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Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« on: December 28, 2009, 12:14:00 AM »
This lists the differences in Ver 1.01 (X360 port) as compared to Ver 1.5 (PCB/X360 port). Also noted are the differences between Ver 1.0 (PCB) and Ver 1.01.

***DIFFERENCES IN VER 1.0/1.01 AS COMPARED TO VER 1.5***
ALL MODES:

-Can't suck in ground gems by pressing laser.
-Current multiplier number doesn't flash-and-fade near your character when you absorb gems.
-Bombs do close to no damage (they act mainly as a temporary bullet cancel).
-No (worthwhile) score increase from destroying the lanterns in Stage 5 (they are also grey, whereas in 1.5 they are blue).
-Many different bullet patterns throughout the stages & on the bosses.
-Bullets are faster overall.
-Location of the stage 5 1UP is different (it's in a house before the house it's in in ver 1.5).
-End of stage 5 enemy layout is different.

ORIGINAL
-No rank [that increases with your overall multiplier].
-Death reduces overall counter by 50%, but stage counter by 30%.

MANIAC
-You can't spawn large gems by hitting laser when the chaining bar is flashing red (this is a pretty huge gameplay difference).
-Gem values are different (takes longer to build up the multiplier, but also longer for it to go back down).
-Chaining bar takes longer to reduce to zero.
-Can't milk the stage 2 boss.

ULTRA
-Change shot type every 500 on the counter.
-Death reduces overall counter by 50%, but stage counter by 30%.

CHARACTER DIFFERENCES IN 1.0/1.01
-Abnormal Palm is weaker, and moves slower.
-Normal Palm is stronger.
-Normal Reco is slightly weaker.

***DIFFERENCES BETWEEN VER 1.0 AND VER 1.01***
-Ver 1.01 adds 2 bomb carriers (one at the end of stage 2, the other at the end of stage 3).
-Ver 1.01 fixes a hit detection bug during the final pattern of the stage 4 boss in Original mode.
-Ver 1.01 adds lifebar notches during the boss fights, to indicate the end of boss phases (just like ver 1.5)
-In Ver 1.01, if you do not kill the ST2 midboss fast enough, the first manta will not appear. This does not occur in Ver 1.0. (Thanks to TimingTripod40 for this info!)
-In Ver 1.01, if you delay killing the enemy right before the midboss so that the enemy's explosion overlaps with the midboss's entrance, the game gets fooled into thinking the midboss has already been destroyed and spawns 2 mid-sized enemies that would normally only show up after the midboss has been killed. This does not occur in Ver 1.0, but it does occur in Ver 1.5. (Thanks to TimingTripod40 for this info!)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 03:00:03 AM by EOJ »
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2010, 01:45:15 PM »
Added the fact that ver 1.01 adds lifebar notches (to indicate the end of boss phases) just like 1.5. This was pretty surprising when I saw it, it makes boss milking easier.
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Offline necpmf

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 03:03:02 PM »
In 1.01, shot is fired upon pressing A. The result is that if you stop firing, then try to laser, you will release a burst of shot before the laser starts. In 1.5, this is changed so that you can go straight to laser without firing any shot, because shot isn't fired until you release A.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 10:21:24 PM »
Quite true. Thanks for the contribution.  :righton:

Two other changes I've noticed:
-End of stage 5 enemy layout is different
-First large bug after the stage 2 midboss doesn't appear (well, sometimes it does, not sure why it doesn't appear for me most of the time).
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2020, 04:32:51 PM »
Recently it's been discovered that there's some significant scoring route differences between Futari 1.01 on the 360 port with the revision of Futari 1.0 that's in MAME, and they seem to be have been undocumented up to now. Firstly, Futari 1.01 features a glitch where the manta after the stage 2 midboss doesn't appear if you don't speedkill the midboss (seen here https://youtu.be/cumNmGDFEQQ?t=275 ). This glitch doesn't seem to be present in either Maniac or Ultra mode in the MAME version. Buffi also recorded a 1cc of Original mode on a 1.0 PCB, and the manta appears for him despite killing the midboss pretty late compared to what's required in 1.01 (see here https://youtu.be/nbwW5kQ-2IM?t=268 ). This seems to prove that there are 1.0 PCB's that don't have this glitch and that it isn't an emulation inaccuracy. EOJ mentions this glitch in the post above mine, but it's not specified if it's a difference compared to 1.5 or 1.0, so some clarification would be nice there.

Another difference that's been discovered is on stage 3. In 1.01, if you delay the kill of the big enemy before the midboss until the last moment, some additional mid-sized enemies will show up towards the end of the fight to give you a better cancel (see here https://youtu.be/_Jw9vqeuPZE?t=106 ). This glitch doesn't seem possible to replicate in 1.0 on MAME, even with trying a later timing than what's required in 1.01.

A theory I've come up with to explain these differences would be that 1.01 was based off an earlier revision of 1.0 than what was added to MAME. As EOJ has mentioned in the past having a 1.0 PCB where the Ultra unlock code didn't work, there definitely are different revisions floating around. The 2 midboss glitch in particular seems like something that would stick out pretty big to even a casual player, as you need to specifically try to avoid the glitch in 1.01.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2020, 04:53:48 PM »
Thanks for this info! As far as I know there are only two Futari 1.0 versions out there. I have owned/played both. I never encountered the ST2 manta not appearing after the midboss in either one. I remember that standing out to me when I played 1.01. I would be surprised to find a third, earlier (glitchier) version of this game, since it was only available for sale for two months before 1.5 came out. Heck, I'm pretty surprised there are even two versions.

As for the ST3 midboss, I really can't recall if I ever kept the midboss alive long enough for those extra enemies to appear. But I certainly never saw this happen on either PCB version. Maybe someone with the PCB here could test it out for us? I would be surprised if it behaved differently from the ROM in MAME.

I think it is unlikely that 1.01 was based on an earlier, glitchy version of 1.0, for a few reasons. First, CAVE are not known for using an early, glitchier version of a game as a base for a later, new version. Second, "incorrect" or irregular appearance/disappearance of enemies in a stage occurs in Ver 1.01 of Muchi Muchi Pork as well (ST5), and that clearly was due to an error in porting the game for the X360. Ibara PS2 and Mushi PS2 have similar enemy/pattern irregularities due to sloppy porting. I think it is likely that the same thing happened in Futari 1.01. Third, there is at least one other porting difference in Futari 1.5 (second phase TLB bullet pattern), along with the stuttering glitch that occurs randomly, as well as a glitch where some enemy sprites become garbled. It's quite a glitchy port, relative to many other CAVE ports.

The behavior of the enemy/enemies right after the ST2 and ST3 midbosses in 1.01 on the X360 seems to be related to the way the timing was coded: after the ST2 midboss, the timing window was shortened for its appearance, whereas after the ST3 midboss the timing window was lengthened for their appearance. Probably just sloppy coding of the port (though, it is also possible it was already in the original 1.01 that CAVE made on PCB for a Matsuri, and which was the base for the port to the X360 -- in this case the changes could have been intentional).
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Offline peg

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2020, 09:14:29 PM »
There are actually 3 different version of Mushi Futari 1.0: no dots, 1 dot, and 2 dots.

Mushihime-Sama Futari
2006/10/23 MASTER VER (Exists, undumped)
2006/10/23 MASTER VER.
2006/10/23.MASTER VER. (Exists, undumped)

I'm guessing the 360 port is based on the later, 2 dot version.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2020, 09:19:15 PM »
Ah, so there are three! I owned the one-dot and the two-dot. I actually don't remember what the one I bought soon after launch in 2006 was, maybe it was a no dot? I wasn't paying attention to the dots back then. I don't remember the enemy after the ST2 boss ever not appearing, but it was a long time ago. I would think the no-dot had to have been sold at launch.

With the two-dot, for whatever reason, you couldn't unlock Ultra with the code (and I have yet to see anyone post another method for unlocking Ultra in this one). This is a bit strange if it was really the last revision.

To fully test TimingTripod40's hypothesis, we'd need to find someone with a no-dot board and have them test out the second and third midbosses. Actually, I have a lot of videos from around the launch, I'll check those as well.
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Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2020, 09:31:36 PM »
I just checked two Futari 1.0 videos I have, which were recorded on November 2, 2006, less than a week after it was released in the arcades. In the ST2 video, the player times out the midboss, and the manta appears. In the ST3 video the player keeps the midboss alive nearly as long as in the video posted above, but no extra enemies appear.

Assuming this is the no-dot version, it looks like these quirks are exclusive to 1.01.

BTW Ver 1.01 was made in December 2006 for the Matsuri that same month.
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2020, 12:32:17 AM »
The 2 midboss glitch seems reliant on destroying the midboss. It seems what's going on is the midboss's death animation overlaps with the entrance of the manta, and the game thinks you've already killed the manta and doesn't spawn it.

The 3 midboss glitch is actually present in 1.5 as well. The glitch seems to be common knowledge among Japanese players, but I personally had no knowledge of it until a few months ago, when I stumbled upon a video of it being performed in 1.5 Ultra (see here: https://youtu.be/dYnMKjNM6cs?t=102 ). I don't think there's any scoring application for it in 1.5, but I was able to adapt it to the 1.01 Maniac scoring route. The key to executing isn't in stalling out the midboss but in stalling the enemy right before the midboss so that the enemy's explosion overlaps with the midboss's entrance. I don't fully understand how it works, but the basics seem to be that the game gets fooled into thinking the midboss has already been destroyed and spawns 2 mid-sized enemies that would normally only show up after the midboss has been killed. This glitch not being in the 1.0 in MAME but still being in 1.5 and 1.01 is really weird to me.

The boot screen of 1.01 on the 360 port dates the game to September 2007, so it's also odd that it could have gotten a release at the December 2006 matsuri. Sitappa mentioned when Cave streamed 1.01 Ultra on their Twitch the version got absolutely no playtesting, so there's an alternative explanation for how the 2 midboss glitch could have slipped through the cracks as a new glitch introduced while they were creating 1.01. The idea of it being a coding error for the port also makes a lot of sense, though, given there being a precedent for such a thing in other Cave ports and in Futari itself.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2020, 12:38:03 AM »

The 3 midboss glitch is actually present in 1.5 as well. The glitch seems to be common knowledge among Japanese players, but I personally had no knowledge of it until a few months ago, when I stumbled upon a video of it being performed in 1.5 Ultra (see here: https://youtu.be/dYnMKjNM6cs?t=102 ). I don't think there's any scoring application for it in 1.5, but I was able to adapt it to the 1.01 Maniac scoring route. The key to executing isn't in stalling out the midboss but in stalling the enemy right before the midboss so that the enemy's explosion overlaps with the midboss's entrance. I don't fully understand how it works, but the basics seem to be that the game gets fooled into thinking the midboss has already been destroyed and spawns 2 mid-sized enemies that would normally only show up after the midboss has been killed. This glitch not being in the 1.0 in MAME but still being in 1.5 and 1.01 is really weird to me.


That video looks like the X360 port. Is this also possible in the PCB/MAME in 1.5? If not, it looks like something that crept in during the porting process (it would explain why it's only found in 1.5/1.01 X360).

Quote
The boot screen of 1.01 on the 360 port dates the game to September 2007, so it's also odd that it could have gotten a release at the December 2006 matsuri.

I think they had 1.01 playable at a Matsuri in 2007 as well, but I'd have to check the archives. December 2006 was the first time, maybe they tweaked it a bit in September 2007 before displaying it again? Anyway, good point that the X360 version is based on the Sept 2007 rev.
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2020, 01:09:58 AM »
Just tested it on my MAME practice states for 1.5 (3 dot version) and the 3 midboss glitch is in there.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2020, 02:59:40 AM »
Thanks! So, this is something not exclusive to 1.01 (unlike the ST2 glitch).
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2020, 01:54:30 AM »
Here's the video showing the stage 4 enemy movement glitch in 1.0 I mentioned on my stream. I tried repeating this savestate several times and it happened every time. Not sure if it's an emulation glitch.

https://streamable.com/ap38r2

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2020, 02:49:58 AM »
Thanks! Here's a video of stage 4 on the PCB with Palm from November 2006:

https://streamable.com/ovawjx

I don't see the glitch there, but the player is on the other side of the screen at that part.

I don't remember encountering this myself, but it was a long time ago that I had the PCB.
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2020, 02:53:46 AM »
Watch the far right side of the screen at 3:05 in that video. Seems the enemy has the same movement bug there.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2020, 02:58:18 AM »
Ok, I see it now.

Here's another video I found:

https://streamable.com/hix3wm

(I have a lot of 1.0 PCB videos, for some reason)
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2020, 03:01:10 AM »
These vids are great. Really appreciate the uploads.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2020, 03:03:20 AM »
I have Ab Reco St4 Original mode too (link below). Not sure if you have that one. It was recorded 27 October 2006, which IIRC was the day after the game was released in the arcades.

https://streamable.com/wdlohm
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2020, 03:11:31 AM »
I've seen none of these vids of 1.0 from its arcade release. It's actually pretty surprising to me that people had the equipment to do direct capture back then.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2020, 03:14:08 AM »
I have some more interesting ones! I'll keep posting them here for you.

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Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2020, 03:19:01 AM »
Here are some short 1.0 PCB videos in Maniac mode with Abnormal Reco by the great Tsumanne, all from late 2006:

ST3 scoring triggering OCD disappearance:
https://streamable.com/ny5c9r

ST3 midboss strat:
https://streamable.com/kgfhud
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Offline TimingTripod40

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2020, 03:27:26 AM »
Really cool to see some vids of Ab Reco scoring Maniac mode. That's another first for me. Neat that she seems to have an advantage doing that big cancel on stage 3. It's really annoying to set up for that with the other characters.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2020, 03:29:24 AM »
Yeah, I wonder what her scoring potential is. I suspect her full potential hasn't been realized in 1.5 Maniac either.
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Re: Mushihimesama Futari ver 1.01 differences
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2020, 05:48:47 PM »
I was playing 1.01 yesterday and nearly cleared it. Here's the last boss fight in the run, I had one spare life and 5 bombs to play with. Got to the last phase but needed another life or at least a few more bombs to clear it:
https://streamable.com/46j9b6

I actually really enjoy this boss fight in 1.01. It's probably my favorite last boss fight in any of the modes/versions of Futari.

One thing I noticed was the 'dagger bullets' pattern at the start of the last phase (see pic below for exactly what I'm talking about) has a lot of slowdown in 1.01 X360, but this is not in the original 1.0 PCB (same story with the 1.5 port vs the PCB, unfortunately). Makes this part a lot easier on the 360.



And for a blast from the past, here's a video I found of the ST5 Maniac 1.0 Boss fight from 24 November 2006. This person beats it with two deaths. Sorta bad video quality because it was from VHS.

https://streamable.com/x6tlp7

(Also, if you compare the 'dagger bullets' pattern in my video with this video, you will see the huge difference in slowdown that I'm talking about)
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