Author Topic: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]  (Read 16305 times)

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2011, 06:33:35 PM »
You have to admit though EOJ your review was very very harsh, granted you are entitled to your oppinion but calling a quality shooter like bulletsoul copycat trash, maybe shows a hostile underlying resentment to the product.

Of course, it was absolutely harsh. I'd never deny that. I hate the game, why wouldn't I be harsh?

Listen, I've been a big supporter of 5pb over the years, and I defended their DDPDOJBL port when many others were just maligning it for its bugs and other problems. Heck, I even really enjoyed the demo of their new fighter Phantom Breaker, which others here do not seem to like at all. I'm definitely not anti-5pb (I'm not anti-any game company), and as I state in my review I was really looking forward to playing Bullet Soul. I'm always interested in playing the newest shooters, and I approach them all with an open mind. Recently I've enjoyed Strike Witches, Strania, and Radirgy Noah Massive (much to my surprise, as I haven't liked previous Milestone shooters).

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I would glady place a bet that if this was a new cave shooter your review would be 100% different

Sorry, you're wrong there.  :) In fact, I probably would have ripped the game even more as I have higher expectations from Cave. Long time readers of the site will know I feel no hesitation in calling Cave out on their shoddy ports or crappy Arrange modes.
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Offline espibara

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2011, 06:38:42 PM »
Hey EOJ lets not fall out lets just agree to disagree, I think 5pb should be applauded for a great stylish first time effort, with lots of polish that is fun to play.

Offline emphatic

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2011, 06:42:04 PM »
Several other rants

 :o That was uncalled for.

I really look forward to receiving Bullet Soul still, as I know that my taste differs somewhat from EOJ's (hey, we can't all love the same games 100%) but will probably play it with sound FX only and some other music in the background. I think I saw a clip of Bullet Soul a while back with a nice 8 bit soundtrack, let's hope this is part of the DLC later on. Are we totally sure that there's no unlockable content in this game, like the X Mode in DOJ originally (pre-patch)? If only they hired someone talented to whip up a cool arrange mode for the DLC...

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2011, 06:46:53 PM »
I think 5pb should be applauded for a great stylish first time effort, with lots of polish that is fun to play.

I'm glad you are enjoying it. It's always good to get different opinions on a game.

Let us know what you think when you get it, emphatic. I may end up being in the minority who doesn't like the game.

As for DLC, no details are known yet. I'd hope some of it would be free.
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Offline TheSoundofRed

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2011, 07:26:27 PM »
Wowzers... Dude dood had some crazy pent up frustration me thinks.

Anyway. I think the main upsetting factor with Bullet Soul is how safe 5pb approached the genre. I think they were planning on an entirely different concept and rushed the current state of the game out for release. You can see the fluctuation from the early TGS builds to now. I don't mind the scoring being based mostly on proximity kills, but it seems their was a missed opportunity with the souls that could have added another dimension to the scoring. I like the game, just feel it's missing something.

I wonder if 5pb will continue to patch the game and update it periodically (indicated by the v1.01 on the title screen). Whatevs. I'm captivated by Eschatos at the moment so I'll probably leave Bullet Soul alone for a bit.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2011, 09:19:34 PM »
just feel it's missing something.


Absolutely. For a game that bills itself as revolving around the "vacant souls of bullets" (this is detailed on the back of the box), when you see they have absolutely nothing to do with the scoring or gameplay, it's sort of bizarre and more than a bit disappointing.

It took Tachyon (the company that actually programmed the game - 5pb just published it) four programmers to make this game (more than pretty much any Cave game, I'll add), but none of them was able to infuse enough originality, excitement, and fun into the scoring system to make the game worth more than a couple mindless "blast'em all up and tap dodge within the slow bullet soup" 1CCs.
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Offline stryc9

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2011, 04:49:53 AM »
Bullet soul just arrived and after an hour of play It seems a lot of the concerns regarding the canceling are kinda justified. I didn't feel threatened at all during the first 2 levels and the apparent missed oportunity with the souls themselves was disappointing (still not sure though,do the have any benefit or not)?, the Sound FX were a little annoying and the explosions weren't loud enough... yet its still a highly polished product with smooth, solid gameplay and controls, interesting backgrounds and a proximity based scoring system. No it's not as good as the Cave shit, but who expected it to be? It's certainly Cave-like, but with it's own aesthetic twist (Crimzon Clover is much closer to a Cave rip off stylisticly speaking).
EOJ, your absolutely right on the mark with a lot of your critisisms, but the tone with which you voiced them made this sound like the worst game in the world, and it's not; it's just not gonna be Cave for ya.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2011, 05:14:03 AM »
but the tone with which you voiced them made this sound like the worst game in the world

Yep, that was kind of my intent.  :) I truly think it's one of the worst shooters I've ever played. I can't remember the last time I was so disappointed in a game. Hopefully 5pb's next shooter will be better, and who knows, maybe the new DLC mode will be super fantastic!

Welcome to the forums, by the way.  :righton:


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Offline SuperPang

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2011, 12:37:25 PM »
I got this today. Only had time so far for a couple of credits but it's frustratingly boring. The bullet cancelling is moronic, like 5pb don't get what makes a STG fun or something. Maybe it would make sense if there was a clever scoring gimmick but if anything the proximity system makes it seem all the more stupid. What makes this particularly hard to swallow is that the production values are surprisingly good.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2011, 04:37:13 PM »
If we watch the original TGS 2010 version from last October:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrJt0loqjnw&feature=related

We see the scoring system was not proximity based, and the meter on the left maxed out at x6. It was a true chaining meter, as whenever you weren't hitting something, it would start to decrease, and your multiplier would go down to x4 or x2 with that decrease. If they had this system but also made the bullets absorbable, perhaps with an auto suck-in range around your ship (like gems in Futari) and worth something (maybe 1000 points each), it could be more exciting. Also, larger souls could get released from larger bullets or enemies, and would be worth more. Or perhaps the souls could increase in size and value the higher your chaining meter went.

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Offline skykid

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #100 on: April 12, 2011, 07:40:52 AM »

Phew, this is great news! A new shmup I don't have to fork out more cash out for. I can feel my bank balance sighing with relief.

Not long to go until Akai Katana.  :righton:
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Offline skykid

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #101 on: April 12, 2011, 07:46:21 AM »

Phew, this is great news! A new shmup I don't have to fork out more cash out for. I can feel my bank balance sighing with relief.

Not long to go until Akai Katana.  :righton:

Oh and...

Honestly most of the cave games from a professorial standpoint are nothing more than over price shareware.

The 'rant' part wasn't best worded, but calling Cave games overpriced shareware should be an insta-ban on any forum. :laugh:
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Offline emphatic

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #102 on: April 12, 2011, 08:20:57 AM »
professorial

I wonder if this was intentional?

Offline brentsg

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #103 on: April 12, 2011, 12:32:14 PM »
My Bullet Soul is begging to be unwrapped.

After reading this thread my hopes are high and I am very excited and anxious to play it.

Offline emphatic

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #104 on: April 12, 2011, 12:54:25 PM »
I got my copy today:




Will post my impressions later when the kids are put to bed and I can put some time into it. But the music is indeed horrible. I think the menu music is the worst though.

Offline emphatic

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #105 on: April 12, 2011, 06:42:30 PM »
Not a dull moment. <- That's the direct opposite of what I felt when playing this game.  :whyioughtta: When the videos appeared I remember sitting at my computer thinking, "if only they would TATE this, because it looks pretty and the patterns seem fun etc" and I fell right into their trap. :facepalm:

I played a couple of credits, first with the left ship (girl) and made it to the 5th boss on the first attempt and most deaths were because I zoned out due to under-stimulation. That last boss though felt like facing the ESPGALUDA 5.2 boss for the first time. And the damn boss fights, they go on forever. :( I then tried the middle ship, and hated the weapon directly, so I ended that credit ASAP and tried the right ship (my current favourite due to it's ability to shorten the boss fights by a minute each!)

I'm gonna play this some more tomorrow, but so far this is not a keeper for me either. The only good thing I can really say is how this makes all of the CAVE ports feel so much better.

Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #106 on: April 12, 2011, 08:21:05 PM »
I think this is one of the reasons Cave says they want other companies to keep releasing shooters, because they always make Cave look good in comparison.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #107 on: April 12, 2011, 08:32:14 PM »
Well, maybe they just want 5pb to keep making shooters for that reason. ;) They seem to respect Milestone, they had their president appear at a recent festival of theirs to promote Radirgy Noah Massive. They've also laid praise on Konami's Otomedius recently. Ikeda has said in the past that Ikaruga is basically the best game ever made. They certainly respect other good shooting game makers, there just aren't too many of them around any more.

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Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #108 on: April 12, 2011, 09:59:36 PM »
Ikeda has said in the past that Ikaruga is basically the best game ever made.


I think this probably has to do with their business culture. They never come out and say they are the best or have made the best, or maybe they do and I just haven't seen it happen. But this reminds me of Honda's president visiting Toyota and saying he wanted to learn from the best car company in the world. I wouldn't trade a TSX for a Camry in a million years though.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #109 on: April 12, 2011, 10:10:34 PM »
For the record, Ikeda said:

"In terms of the hardware, our machine?s graphical power was pretty poor for the previous installment, ?Dodonpachi?, and so this led to many days of questioning myself: ?if I really can?t surpass the previous game, why am I working on this one??  We also had Treasure unveiling Ikaruga at the same time, and so in addition to that question I was also struggling with the dilemma of ?I know that we can?t do better than Ikaruga, so why are we making a game for the same platform, and of the same genre??  I really worried about this.  But finally, I resolved it by rephrasing the problem: ?the hardware?s graphical power is not going to improve no matter how much I struggle with it, and I?m never going to be a genius that can make a game like Ikaruga, so worrying about it is just a waste??

From adverse's translation here.

Ikaruga is pretty incredible, and when it was released in 2001 it was groundbreaking, so it's not hard to see where Ikeda is coming from. To this day I find it to be better than most Cave games.

You're right that most Japanese won't come out and say "we're the best at this," but they also won't lay such high praise on a game or company unless they actually respect it.
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Offline twoup

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #110 on: April 12, 2011, 10:27:11 PM »
I got my Asian version a few days ago, it seems to be exactly the same as the Japanese version (CERO rating, cd etc) only $60. I didn't think the game was that great either, the bullets are almost as slow as one of those genterprise dsiware shooters, at one point I died by backing into a bullet that was taking too long to move down the screen. Sound really is awful, I don't mind guitar soundtracks like Night Raid where it's all jumped up and a bit cheesy but I didn't hear anything memorable here.

This game might be a good gateway shooter for newer players, I know when I was really getting into Danmaku stuff I liked Pysvariar II and Shikigami II a lot due to the bullet cancelling and slow speed respectively and once I got good at those games I moved on to the harder stuff like DOJ.

I think the game might be better in 2P mode, the bosses shouldn't take so long to beat then. I'm going to give that a go at some stage but for now between eschatos, strania & mamoru ps3 I've got too much in the way of good STG action to bother with bullet soul.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #111 on: April 12, 2011, 10:31:07 PM »
I got my Asian version a few days ago, it seems to be exactly the same as the Japanese version (CERO rating, cd etc) only $60.

Yes, I've read this elsewhere. No real Asian version will have a Cero rating. Maybe play-asia made a mistake in the listing? The so-called "Asian version" is no longer available.
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Offline Muchi Muchi Spork

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #112 on: April 12, 2011, 10:40:26 PM »
For the record, Ikeda said:

"In terms of the hardware, our machine?s graphical power was pretty poor for the previous installment, ?Dodonpachi?, and so this led to many days of questioning myself: ?if I really can?t surpass the previous game, why am I working on this one??  We also had Treasure unveiling Ikaruga at the same time, and so in addition to that question I was also struggling with the dilemma of ?I know that we can?t do better than Ikaruga, so why are we making a game for the same platform, and of the same genre??  I really worried about this.  But finally, I resolved it by rephrasing the problem: ?the hardware?s graphical power is not going to improve no matter how much I struggle with it, and I?m never going to be a genius that can make a game like Ikaruga, so worrying about it is just a waste??

From adverse's translation here.

Ikaruga is pretty incredible, and when it was released in 2001 it was groundbreaking, so it's not hard to see where Ikeda is coming from. To this day I find it to be better than most Cave games.

You're right that most Japanese won't come out and say "we're the best at this," but they also won't lay such high praise on a game or company unless they actually respect it.

Yeah no argument about the respect. I definitely need to give Ikaruga another go but in the past I've generally found Treasure games have overly complicated weapons and to be good but overrated.

Offline EOJ

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #113 on: April 12, 2011, 10:45:14 PM »
Ikaruga is the exception in regard to overcomplicated weapons in Treasure games. It has one of the simplest systems in any shooting game - no weapon upgrades, no power upgrades.
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Offline TheSoundofRed

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #114 on: April 12, 2011, 10:59:42 PM »

Why have a multiplier if there is no risk of losing it? At least that would have given the player incentive to actually play the game and score well.

Jeez Bullet Soul developers. Did they even take the time to play any games from the genre?

Offline twoup

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #115 on: April 12, 2011, 11:02:20 PM »
Yeah I think the Asian version thing was PA's mistake for sure, especially as they seem to be sold out of it forever. I feel slightly less burned on this at $60 so glad I went with that heh.

On that Ikaruga thing I was suprised to read about it the first time, I can't stand Ikaruga personally, I leant my dreamcast to a mate for a few months once and when I got it back that's mostly what he'd played having minimal interest in shooters prior to that. I just don't get the appeal but it seems to be very popular with shooting and non-shooting fans alike so I'd have to begrudgingly admit it does something right. It's just surprising to hear that level of praise from IKD because for my taste everything he's done is far more enjoyable.

Offline SH4R4KU

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #116 on: April 13, 2011, 12:58:43 AM »
On that Ikaruga thing I was suprised to read about it the first time, I can't stand Ikaruga personally, I leant my dreamcast to a mate for a few months once and when I got it back that's mostly what he'd played having minimal interest in shooters prior to that. I just don't get the appeal but it seems to be very popular with shooting and non-shooting fans alike so I'd have to begrudgingly admit it does something right. It's just surprising to hear that level of praise from IKD because for my taste everything he's done is far more enjoyable.

I also have Ikaruga on the Dreamcast (legit copy) and really did quite like it. I since purchase Under Defeat, Lost Hope and Trigger Heart Excelica. I liked them all very much.

DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu 1.5 was the first CAVE game I have ever owned. I had a bash on the Saturn game back in '98, but this really is something else. The music and the style of the game really click with me, and sometimes I get through an amazing pattern of bullets and just find myself exclaiming at the television with excitement!

Offline skykid

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #117 on: April 13, 2011, 09:04:08 AM »

The best thing to come from Ikaruga was Ikeda pushing himself to make DOJ.  :righton:

Ikaruga is an interesting game, but imo far from the greatest.
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Offline emphatic

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #118 on: April 13, 2011, 03:54:50 PM »
Got the loop today (with autobomb  :facepalm: ). It's way more intense than the first loop (it looks like they just doubled the first loop's bullets) but still feels kinda non-exciting. I made it to the 4th boss where those blue lines of bullets with the little gaps with green gates that you pass through were at least twice as tight, so extremely hard to fit through. No bombs left at this time, so I got dusted.

I also noticed a bit of slowdown on the third boss' ESPGALUDA homage pattern (those swaying curtains of bullets chase you from side to side).  :laugh: When the DLC appears, I won't bite until someone posts here how it has miraculously fixed the game with LOTS of proof.  :(

Offline SuperPang

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Re: Bullet Soul [5pb, April 7th 2011, JP X360]
« Reply #119 on: April 14, 2011, 07:51:25 AM »
Two of the sound effects alone make me want to quit by the end of the first level. You know the ones I'm talking about.