Cave games from easiest to hardest in terms of difficulty to 1cc

[zlk]

In another thread there are some posts about how difficult it is to 1cc Espgaluda 2.  What are peoples opinions on what are the easiest and hardest Cave games to 1cc?  By 1cc I mean 2-all if there are two loops.  If you want to include TLBs with special requirements (like ketsui, df, or MFBL god mode) please note them in your posts.  So that everyone is on the same page, please consider Japanese versions of the games in your post.  Just to start things off (and yes I am leaving many games out):

death smiles (rank 1, no canyon) < espgaluda < guwange < esprade < espgaluda 2 < ibara < dangun feveron (without TLB)

and at the upper end

doj > ketsui (ura loop) > ddp > mushi ultra > progear

[EOJ]

I'd say:

Non-looping games "EASY TIER":
EASIEST to HARDEST
deathsmiles(no canyon) < MFBL Original < mushi futari original < mushi original < espgaluda

Non-looping games "INTERMEDIATE TIER":
EASIEST to HARDEST
MFBL Maniac < Muchi Muchi Pork(1-ALL) < Ibara Kuro < Mushi Maniac < Mushi Futari 1.5 Maniac

Non-looping games "HARD TIER":
EASIEST to HARDEST
Mushi futari 1.0 Maniac < MFBL God mode < Espgaluda 2< Deathsmiles (canyon) < Ibara< Pink Sweets < Mushi Ultra < Mushi Futari Ultra

Looping games:
EASIEST to HARDEST
Dodonpachi < Muchi Muchi Pork < Ketsui (Tsuujou) < Ketsui (Ura) < Dodonpachi Daioujou

I'm not sure where Donpachi and Progear fit in here, as I have little experience with either. I missed some other games I haven't played much (Guwange, Dangun, etc) too.

[GaijinPunch]

DDP would go in the easy tear for non-looping, hardest tear for looping.
Progear is in the hard tier either way (for me, anyway).

I think EOJ's list is good.  I can't comment quite yet on Deathsmiles (canyon).  I'm warming up to it, kind of like how a red-headed step child warms up to parental beatings.  I actually no-miss, two bombed up to the dragon, and would have 1-bombed killed him going into power mode, but was a frame too late (the little lag they have is a bitch).  It's definitely doable once you figure out the few tricky parts (vertical scrolling where you have a small hole to get through).  Those are pretty much the shittiest parts.  I find the castle much more tolerable until you get to the giant assholes at the end (on the bottom floor) w/ the statues shooting suicide bullets at you.  If i could figure out that part, the the 1CC will be close.  You also have to take into account it gives you 2 back on your life bar (which is 6 bombs) if you no-bomb his first form.  It's not that hard either.

[SuperPang]

The first loop of DFK 1.5 Bomber mode is about as easy as Espgaluda. Power however is a different story.

[zlk]

I haven't played much of MFBL godmode, but it seemed quite hard to me.  Maybe there are some tricks involved and many enemies that force the bullets into gems, but it seemed way harder than ESPG2.  

Maybe you guys (EOJ and GP) have some sort of savant-like ability with respect to godmode, or maybe I just am terrible at it.  I will give it another try later when I have some time.  

[EOJ]

God mode isn't so bad. Once you get the hang of manipulating the slowdown, a lot of parts are pretty easy. Stage 4 is really easy (it's easier than 1.5's Maniac mode stage 4).

Galuda 2 isn't too bad until around the stage 4 boss. After that it ramps up, and the final boss fight is really hard, and really long. It's harder than the MFBL God mode last boss. That's why I rank it as harder to 1CC.

[hermosaguy]

Galuda 2 isn't too bad until around the stage 4 boss. After that it ramps up, and the final boss fight is really hard, and really long. It's harder than the MFBL God mode last boss. That's why I rank it as harder to 1CC.

I would usually turn the game off when i got to the last boss.  Galuda 2 is one of my favorite games, just that last part is too brutal for me and frustrating.  I definitely agree...the MFBL last boss (especially on normal!) is alot more do-able.

[charlienash87]

If home ports count, mushi arrange is the easiest to 1cc. if home ports don't count, espgaluda would have to be the easiest. I haven't had a chance to play deathsmiles but it looks fairly easy. DDPDOJ has got to be the hardest to 1cc, especially with that TLB

there hasn't been nearly enough discussion on this thread, hope no one minds it having a bump

[markedkiller78]

It?s nice to see Esp Galuda at the top end of the easy tier I thought I was missing something as everyone says the game is easy. The final boss is an absolute bitch to clear.

mushi original < esp rade < espgaluda?

Again basing this purely on the final boss. It?s harder (in my eyes) than Mushi Original

[EOJ]

My new list, having played every CAVE game released thus far:

Non-looping games "EASY TIER":
EASIEST to HARDEST
deathsmiles(no canyon) < MFBL Original < mushi futari original < mushi original < espgaluda

Non-looping games "INTERMEDIATE TIER":
EASIEST to HARDEST
MFBL Maniac < Muchi Muchi Pork(1-ALL) < Ibara Kuro < Mushi Maniac <Mushi Futari 1.0 Original < Mushi Futari 1.5 Maniac

Non-looping games "HARD TIER":
EASIEST to HARDEST
MFBL God mode < Espgaluda 2< Mushi futari 1.0 Maniac <  Deathsmiles (canyon) < Deathsmiles MBL (ice +canyon) < Ibara< Pink Sweets < Mushi Ultra < Mushi Futari 1.5 Ultra < Mushi Futari 1.0 Ultra

Looping games:
EASIEST to HARDEST
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu (tsuujou) < Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu (Ura) < Dodonpachi < Muchi Muchi Pork < Ketsui (Tsuujou) < Ketsui (Ura) < Dodonpachi Daioujou

I'm not sure where Donpachi and Progear fit in here, as I have little experience with either. I missed some other games I haven't played much (Guwange, Dangun, etc) too.

Mushi Futari 1.0 Ultra is the only game CAVE has made that I think is absolutely impossible to 1CC on defaults.

[GaijinPunch]

Mushi Futari 1.0 Ultra is the only game CAVE has made that I think is absolutely impossible to 1CC on defaults.

Wonder if anyone will ever be sick enough to try it out.

[EOJ]

I don't even think SWY-Yusemi could ALL it. Harder stages 3 to 5, with pitiful bomb damage, and two less bombs to pick up. Plus Abnormal Palm is weak and useless in 1.0.

[Third_strike]

I don't even think SWY-Yusemi could ALL it. Harder stages 3 to 5, with pitiful bomb damage, and two less bombs to pick up. Plus Abnormal Palm is weak and useless in 1.0.

Yes!
Chuck Norris can do it no miss no bomb!
I know because I saw.
Cool!

[jpj]

deathsmiles(no canyon) < MFBL Original < mushi futari original < mushi original < espgaluda

you think mushi original is harder than futari original?  or am i reading it wrong?

[EOJ]

Well they're both ridiculously easy. If I had to choose I'd say Futari 1.5 is a bit easier, as I cleared that on like my 5th credit, whereas it took me more credits to clear Mushi Original (not many more, though).

[jpj]

i think you're on drugs    gotta be futari for my money

interesting to see how different people have different ideas of what is and isn't tough though. 

from what i've played, i'd put the non-looping games in this order:

mushi original > deathsmiles (no canyon+low rank) > espgaluda > mushi maniac > esprade > futari original > guwange > futari maniac > ibara > dangun feveron > espgaluda 2 > mushi ultra > futari ultra

something like pink sweets is very difficult to place.  and i think a 2-ALL on ddp, ketsui, progear, or doj, would be as tough as the ultra clears.  the ketsui and doj 2-ALLs probably between a mushi ultra, and futari ultra

oxstu had a very interesting list from arcadia readers, over at shmups, that is well worth checking out

[EOJ]

Sorry dude, you're the one on drugs if you think Futari 1.5 Original is harder than Mushi Maniac.

[jpj]

   mushi maniac is a *touch* harder than galuda.  i think futari original last boss is tougher than galuda/mushi maniac last boss 

[EOJ]

i think futari original last boss is tougher than galuda/mushi maniac last boss 

Futari Original last boss is one of the few Cave final bosses I can regularly no miss, nowhere near as hard as Galuda's last boss, but maybe on par with Mushi Maniac's last boss. I think you need to watch some vids or practice, it's quite an easy last boss fight really, especially with Abnormal Palm (though I think the whole game is easier with N.Reco).

[jpj]

nah, i just think you've played too much futari is all 
for example, looking at my list again, for me to loop doj (either version) i would rate as harder than deathsmiles no canyon, but easier than galuda. 
there's a dynamic difference between the two as well.  futari original is more about fast bullets and twitch didging, whereas mushi maniac is far more typical cave fare. 

[EOJ]

nah, i just think you've played too much futari is all 

I didn't need to spend much time to clear futari original. 5 credits is all it took. I think GP cleared it on his first credit. Such a joke of a game, in terms of difficulty. They should have kept it the same as in 1.0 (which is actually a good challenge).

All you have to do is know a couple spots to start each phase of the final boss in Futari, then "tap tap" at the right moment. It's really, really easy after a minimal amount of effort. You can't do that in Galuda.

As for (the first loop of) DOJ, that strikes me as a memorizer like Ikaruga. It seems really hard if you haven't played much, but once you memorize everything, it becomes much easier, as there is little to no variability. Too bad I don't like the game enough to play it seriously!

[jpj]

i didn't get the dvd til a while after, which doesn't help.  i should play it more often 

[EOJ]

I didn't have the DVD until 6-7 months after I bought the kit. Watch some nico vids and practice away! 
I'd highly recommend you use N.Reco, though people seem to like to use Ab.Palm for some reason (stages 4 and 5 are much harder with him).

I do think you're right about Futari 1.5 Ori being harder than Mushi Maniac, but only if you play 1.5 Ori with Ab Reco. 
That's a fun challenge.

[lgb]

Pre-PGM, no loops considered, higher is harder:

1. Guwange
2. Dangun Feveron
3. Progear
4. ESP Ra.De.
5. DoDonPachi
6. DonPachi

Loops considered:

1. DoDonPachi
2. Progear
3. DonPachi
4. Guwange
5. Dangun Feveron
6. ESP Ra.De.

These lists are based on length as well as scoring system. They might be somewhat related to raw difficulty (DDP is below ESP Ra.De. for a reason), though I'm sure someone will want to put DoDonPachi higher for its first loop. I really am closer to beating DDP than ESP Ra.De. at the moment, yet I've played the latter longer.

[Plasmo]

Considering loops you think Dangun is harder, but not considering loops you think Guwange is harder? They both don't have a loop?

DDP first loop is one of the easiest Cave 1-ALL's, imo.

[lgb]

Isn't Guwange one loop only?

[Plasmo]

And so is Dangun, yes.

[lgb]

I thought Dangun had two loops and a TLB?

edit: Never mind then. Guess that makes my life easier. Fixing that list...

[jpj]

ah, here's that thread from way back when.  it was rastan78 that posted it, not oxtsu.  whoops 

so here's a mini brief, listed hardest to easiest:

DDP campaign version 2-ALL
DOJ 2-ALL
ketsui 2-ALL (ura loop)
mushi ultra // progear 2-ALL
DDP 2-ALL
DOJ black label 2-ALL // ketsui tsuujou 2-ALL
DOJ black label 1-ALL (1-loop mode - ie fight hibachi !!)
guwange
DOJ 1-ALL
DOJ black label 1-ALL (no hibachi)
DDP 1-ALL
mushi maniac
espgaluda

note that it's an old list, and not comprehensive.  quite interesting though 

http://shmups.system11.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11373&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=arcadia+list&start=0

[matrigs]

this is very interesting stuff.

the fact that people consider mushi original to be easy is kind of a mistery for me. especially easier than futari bl original. i all-ed bl original a couple of times after playing it for a realtively short time. although i have to admit that i try to hold the counter below 9999. after reading this topic i launched the ps2 mushi original arcade version and i was being horribly himiliated by this game. the bulets seem to be travelling with lightspeed and its just impossible for me to dodge them. this speed also gives me a lot of eyestrain so i'm feeling really uncomfortable playing it. my friend also played a lot of cave games and finished only futari bl and can't finish also most of the games considered "easier" in this topic. i kind of wonder why that is.