Author Topic: Pink Sweets [Strategy guide] (Read 61638 times)

Plasmo · « **Reply #150 on:** April 25, 2009, 05:37:36 AM »

Interesting find!
So how many points do you roughly get from, let's say stage 5 boss laser attack?

EOJ · « **Reply #151 on:** April 25, 2009, 06:07:12 AM »

I haven't calculated it, but in my last run I milked the st5 boss almost exclusively with this for at least a few hundred thousand points. A lot more than you get from just bombing or using your low power shot. You have to make sure you don't bomb on the boss too much, otherwise the fight will end prematurely. You also really need to milk the bosses until they timeout when you use this technique.

It's quite effective on the stage 7 midboss too.

EOJ · « **Reply #152 on:** March 01, 2011, 06:10:52 PM »

YOS.K has a new replay with Lace up on the Xbox live leaderboards - 5.5mil up to the snakes in stage 4. Basic summary of his strats: use the rose cracker over and over from the start of the game - use it as your primary weapon; Milk bosses with the rose cracker, bullet aborption, and by hovering your charged rose cracker aura over the boss for tick points; milk midbosses with shot on destructible bullets and use the rose cracker as defense mechanism; max out rank by the start of stage 3; use rapid A+B to start the game, and then when you get rose hips use rapid B to jack up the rank. Other than that it's medal/item collection and good dodging skills. I don't think any of his deaths were intentional, so don't suicide. A death drops the rank meter so insignificantly when you're at max rank, you want as many lives in stock as you can get.

I've also been testing the 1UP item requirements in training mode and while you must destroy 2500 enemies/destructible bullets with shot for a 1UP to appear, I'm pretty sure using the rose cracker does not LOWER the counter, but it definitely doesn't add to the counter (like the rose hips).

brentsg · « **Reply #153 on:** March 01, 2011, 06:31:44 PM »

I rarely use Xbox Live. For the leaderboard videos, do you have to be on a matching region gamertag? I tried to watch adverse's run and one of yours EOJ.. but I got some text I couldn't read.

EOJ · « **Reply #154 on:** March 01, 2011, 09:21:36 PM »

Do you have an Xbox live Gold membership? Maybe you need that to watch replays - I haven't tried a silver account so I don't know for sure. I use my US gamertag to watch replays from all over the world, no problem whatsoever.

brentsg · « **Reply #155 on:** March 01, 2011, 09:51:02 PM »

Quote from: EOJ on March 01, 2011, 09:21:36 PM

Do you have an Xbox live Gold membership? Maybe you need that to watch replays - I haven't tried a silver account so I don't know for sure. I use my US gamertag to watch replays from all over the world, no problem whatsoever.

US one I was using is gold.

I'll screenshot the next error message. Once I switched to my JPN gamertag it was fine, but by then I had to be elsewhere so I watched level 1.

Needless to say, I played level 1 exactly the same as you do.. except your score was like 5x higher.

dan76 · « **Reply #156 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:17:48 AM »

I've been watching replays on my UK silver account no problem - I'm currently lurking around the bottom of the leaderboard

Plasmo · « **Reply #157 on:** March 05, 2011, 04:37:03 AM »

Thanks very much for the tips from the replay. I'd still love to watch it myself someday.

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I'm pretty sure using the rose cracker does not LOWER the counter, but it definitely doesn't add to the counter (like the rose hips).

I'm not entirely sure where I've gooten that information from and it quite baffles me now. I guess I have to check certain Arcadia issues again. I'll definitely do some investigation about the exact requirement.

The highscore topic here (and on shmups.com, too) is way too silent, seems like noone is playing 1.00?

Plasmo · « **Reply #158 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:11:46 AM »

I did a quick google search and this link says:

"破壊可能物(敵・及び破壊可能弾)を2500個、自機のショットで破壊する毎に1UPアイテムが画面外から降ってくる。ただし、ボムで破壊した破壊可能物・敵弾1つにつき前述の破壊カウントが1下がる。"

That information is probably taken straight from Arcadia. How can we know what's true now? Are you 100% sure that rose cracker doesn't lower the counter EOJ? $:-\$

EOJ · « **Reply #159 on:** March 07, 2011, 02:06:04 AM »

I tested the rose cracker thing in Training mode. I set the 1UP to drop after the first 10 enemies destroyed, killed five with the shot, then five with the rose cracker. Only took me five more with the shot to get the 1UP, not 10, which shows the rose cracker doesn't reduce the count. Also, YOS.K uses the rose cracker all over the place (on enemies, and to milk destructible bullets) and still gets a 1UP to drop in the end of Stage 3 or in Stage 4 in his replays, which wouldn't happen if the rose cracker kept reducing the 1UP drop count toward zero. Dying definitely reduces the 1UP count, but I'm not sure by how much. Maybe 500?

Speaking of YOS.K, he has a new replay up - 9.3mil up to the the end of the first 1/3rd of Stage 6. He drops his medal chain on the snakes in Stage 4 (quite tragically), which really hurt his score. He also flubbed a lot of Stage 6, but he makes so much of it look so manageable. From watching his replays, I get the feeling of someone relearning the game after not playing it for about 4 years. I doubt he kept playing it much after he got his WR in 2006. The arcade probably removed the PCB soon after. Considering he jumped from 3.7mil to 9.3mil in about a week, I expect a 13mil~16mil clear from him in the near future. He just needs to keep everything together in one run.

IIRC his end of stage scores in the 9.3mil run were:
St1: 1.1mil
St2: 4+mil
St3: 6.2mil
St4: 7.Xmil
St5: 8.7mil

In comparison, here were his end of stage scores for his 20+mil WR run on the PCB version (2006, with the infinite lives trick used):
Stage 2: 3.7mil
Stage 3: 6 mil
Stage 4: 9 mil
Stage 5: 10.8 mil
Stage 6: 17 mil

I should add that so far YOS.K only plays Ver 1.00 on the port, never 1.01.

Plasmo · « **Reply #160 on:** March 07, 2011, 07:52:45 AM »

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I tested the rose cracker thing in Training mode. I set the 1UP to drop after the first 10 enemies destroyed, killed five with the shot, then five with the rose cracker. Only took me five more with the shot to get the 1UP, not 10, which shows the rose cracker doesn't reduce the count. Also, YOS.K uses the rose cracker all over the place (on enemies, and to milk destructible bullets) and still gets a 1UP to drop in the end of Stage 3 or in Stage 4 in his replays, which wouldn't happen if the rose cracker kept reducing the 1UP drop count toward zero. Dying definitely reduces the 1UP count, but I'm not sure by how much. Maybe 500?

Thanks very much for further testing. I didn't know, that you can change the 1UP condition in training mode, that's quite helpful. I'll change the main post accordingly.
Also very interesting to know, that dying actually lowers your counter! I guess further research needs to be done regarding this matter.

I have a few questions about YOS.K.'s replay: Does he raise rank intentionally to let more enemies appear or does he try to hold it low? When does he suicide or does he suicide at all? Does he pick up the 1UP items or let them go off screen?
1,1mill on stage 1 alone is insane! AZI got 250mill from milking the boss with the player ship, but only had 800mill after the stage. Where does YOS.K. get that extra 300mill? More aggressive boss milking with the same strategy or something new? Does he exploit this trick at other bosses, too?

On a personal note, my copy of PS arrives today or tomorrow and I'm very, very hyped and motivated to the max. The quest begins anew!

EOJ · « **Reply #161 on:** March 07, 2011, 01:31:36 PM »

Quote from: Plasmo on March 07, 2011, 07:52:45 AM

Also very interesting to know, that dying actually lowers your counter! I guess further research needs to be done regarding this matter.

This is just my assumption. Every time I die, it seems like it takes noticeably longer for a 1UP to drop.

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I have a few questions about YOS.K.'s replay: Does he raise rank intentionally to let more enemies appear or does he try to hold it low?

Intentional raise. He uses rapid B in the first stage to jack up the rank. It's maxed out by the end of Stage 2.

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When does he suicide or does he suicide at all? Does he pick up the 1UP items or let them go off screen?

No suicides. Picks up all 1UPs. When rank maxes out at the end of stage 2, there's no point in suiciding as a death lowers the rank just a sliver and a few rose crackers push it right back up to max again. A suicide at the start of the game is also pointless as it lowers the rank so insignificantly. You'll see when you get the port and you can play with the rank gauge on the screen.

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1,1mill on stage 1 alone is insane! AZI got 250mill from milking the boss with the player ship, but only had 800mill after the stage. Where does YOS.K. get that extra 300mill? More aggressive boss milking with the same strategy or something new? Does he exploit this trick at other bosses, too?

Lace's special power up shot is worth more per hit? Also more rose cracker usage? Seems to be a combination of those two factors.

He does some very interesting midboss milking. For example on the stage 3 midboss, he doesn't shoot AT ALL, he milks the laser blasts (every time they shoot, your ship gets points if it's close to the lasers) then uses rose crackers (that don't touch the midboss) during its shooting phase to milk the type 2 bullets. He does this until it times out.

Plasmo · « **Reply #162 on:** March 07, 2011, 02:31:25 PM »

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Lace's special power up shot is worth more per hit?

Of course! How could I forget this...

Btw, Pink Sweets get!

EOJ · « **Reply #163 on:** March 07, 2011, 02:34:04 PM »

New YOS.K replay is up : 9.6mil ending at the stage 5 boss. A better stage 4, but he still drops his medal chain there. Really nice stage 5 pattern.

Plasmo · « **Reply #164 on:** March 14, 2011, 09:13:18 AM »

I've figured that this is the better place for Pink Sweets talk.

I've been messing around with the 1UP condition and Arcadia was indeed right, the Rose Cracker lowers the counter by -1! Try to set the 1UP Zan count to 1 and start stage 1. Bomb through halfway the stage and then shoot. You won't get the 1UP in stage 1 anymore. Now restart and use Shot from the beginning. Your first item will be the 1UP.

There's a new Score Attack replay uploaded by me (5,4mill, All Clear). It's currently first place if you don't count 1.01 scores.
It's quite bad, but shows the basic strategies.

Also: The snakelaser section is driving me crazy! I'm practicing stage 6 with Rank meter 60% and it's so damn difficult. I've been able to do it once (!) without dying. This will never happen during a full credit... $:-\$
Does anyone have any good ideas for the first midboss of stage 6? I'm doing a very risky strategy atm (shown in my 8,5mill replay), where I don't have to use the Rose Cracker, but I'd rather like to have a safer strategy for him.

Dave_K. · « **Reply #165 on:** March 15, 2011, 01:13:31 AM »

Sorry, late to the party here.

I meant to tell you about this awhile ago Plasmo, once I found all the debug counters in the Special Ver on the PCB. Rose Cracker does not decrement the zan counter, at least not on the PCB I have (original 2006/04/06). I have no idea about the port or other PCB revisions, as they seemed to have messed with all the versions to some degree.

BTW: the accuracy is really not very good with respect to boss bullets. Even the first boss when he shoots the blue clusters of bullets, and in the last form the green rings of bullets, there is zero slowdown in the port, while the PCB has lots of slowdown. Its so apparent I don't know why nobody ever mentioned this before...maybe I'm the only one left with the PCB?

EOJ · « **Reply #166 on:** March 15, 2011, 02:13:01 AM »

Quote from: Dave_K. on March 15, 2011, 01:13:31 AM

Rose Cracker does not decrement the zan counter, at least not on the PCB I have (original 2006/04/06).

Port is the same. I don't know what Plasmo is smoking.

In fact once you reach 2500 on the zan counter you do not even need to kill the next enemy with a shot to get the 1UP. You can use the rose cracker and still have the 1UP pop out (I've done this many times, particularly on the bombs in the last phase of the stage 3 boss). This, of course, would be impossible if the rose cracker reduced the counter.

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BTW: the accuracy is really not very good with respect to boss bullets. Even the first boss when he shoots the blue clusters of bullets, and in the last form the green rings of bullets, there is zero slowdown in the port, while the PCB has lots of slowdown. Its so apparent I don't know why nobody ever mentioned this before...maybe I'm the only one left with the PCB?

Yes, I noticed this at the start, but it's completely unnecessary slowdown in the PCB version, so its omission in the port is no big deal.

Plasmo · « **Reply #167 on:** March 15, 2011, 04:47:24 AM »

And the story continues.

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Port is the same. I don't know what Plasmo is smoking. In fact once you reach 2500 on the zan counter you do not even need to kill the next enemy with a shot to get the 1UP. You can use the rose cracker and still have the 1UP pop out (I've done this many times, particularly on the bombs in the last phase of the stage 3 boss). This, of course, would be impossible if the rose cracker reduced the counter.

If the 1UP is already triggered, It'll appear either way, probably even if you've destroyed the enemy with your Rose Hips (need to test that). Keep in mind that the 1UP follows the basic rules for items and will appear instead of the next item. Every eighth destroyed enemy will release an item.
Example time: If your Zan count has already reached 2500, but you need to shoot four more enemies for an item to appear, the 1UP will appear even if you've used the Rose Cracker on these last four enemies. These four enemies will NOT count at all, because your Zan counter has already reset. Technically it should be -4 for the next 1UP then, but I don't think it can fall under 0.

As I said, play stage 1 in Training mode and set the 1UP to appear as soon as possible. Use RS for a time and the 1UP will appear much later, use Shot right from the start and it'll appear immediately.

Dave_K. · « **Reply #168 on:** March 15, 2011, 10:19:54 PM »

Quote from: Plasmo on March 15, 2011, 04:47:24 AM

These four enemies will NOT count at all, because your Zan counter has already reset. Technically it should be -4 for the next 1UP then, but I don't think it can fall under 0.

Actually the zan counter goes over 2500, and typically does for me while milking the stage 2 second mid-boss. It resets once the 1up pops out, but you are right in that anything that shoots the enemy down after this point for the next item drop will release the 1up.

I'll do more research into the rose cracker, as I believe there is a separate counter for that in the debug screens.

Plasmo · « **Reply #169 on:** March 19, 2011, 08:42:10 AM »

Found out another major difference between Pink Sweets 1.00 and 1.01:

You can actually control your rank not only by dying, but also by missing max medals. Missing a 10k medal significantly decreases your rank. So every now and then, especially when there are tons of medals on screen, you should miss some and pick up the very last one that's on screen to still maintain your chain.

Compared to 1.00 this is really Novice mode.

EOJ · « **Reply #170 on:** March 19, 2011, 02:56:43 PM »

Quote from: Plasmo on March 19, 2011, 08:42:10 AM

Compared to 1.00 this is really Novice mode.

So you've 1CC'd 1.01?

I really hate the Novice mode comparison as it's not even close to being accurate - have you played a Cave "Novice mode" before? The difference between PS 1.0 and 1.01 is more like the difference between Futari 1.0 (hard as hell) and 1.5 (much easier compared to 1.0, but still no Novice mode).

Plasmo · « **Reply #171 on:** March 19, 2011, 05:57:22 PM »

Of course Futari Novice was a joke, PS 1.01 isn't that easy.

But PS 1.01 really looks more like a beginner's mode to me. I'll see if I can get the 1cc when I'm in the mood next time. Maybe I'm wrong and this mode is actually difficult, but I highly doubt it.

EOJ · « **Reply #172 on:** March 19, 2011, 06:03:23 PM »

I think you could do it with Lace. Also try some other characters.

I don't suicide, I use the rose cracker when I need it, and I do full medals, and the rank maxes out in Stage 4. It's pretty much the same as 1.00 from there on out except the boss hit points don't increase so much with the rank. It's definitely not a beginner's mode, but it's probably on par with Ibara's difficulty if you don't keep too many lives in stock.

Plasmo · « **Reply #173 on:** March 19, 2011, 06:32:51 PM »

Oh hi replay time.

Arcade Ver. 1.01

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13897233
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13897410
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13897576
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13897764

Notes: A good demonstration of how to keep rank at around zero (!) throughout the whole game. Looks very manageable this way.

Arcade Ver. 1.00

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13884311
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13884549
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13884680

Notes: The score is shit and it starts out as a boring low rank replay we've seen tons of in the past. But this one is actually quite important, because the player maxes out the rank by stage 5/6 and shows some very nice strategies surviving the game at max rank. Check out the crazy snakelaser section and the absolutely godlike performance at stage 7 midboss. Highly recommended watch!

Arrange

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13842227
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13843040
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13844597
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13844627
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13844682

Notes: Score is over 500mill and IIRC that's the replay from the top score of the leaderboards. If you're into Arrange, you definitely need to watch this. Lots of milking going on. Not the kind of arrange mode I would enjoy, but a nice watch nevertheless.

Plasmo · « **Reply #174 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:01:00 PM »

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It's definitely not a beginner's mode, but it's probably on par with Ibara's difficulty if you don't keep too many lives in stock.

Tried a few credits 1.01 and reached the last boss' last form with A,4mill I think. I didn't really know how to deal with the last boss in general. I did so many bad mistakes and died all over the place. Next time I sit down, I'll get that 1cc, promised.

It's nowhere near as difficult as Ibara! You really need to miss more max medals, that's the keypoint of maintaining a low rank and being able to breeze through the game. Maybe it's just me, because I had some good training lessons with 1.00 and Score Attack, but I wouldn't even say 1.01 is as difficult as DOJ (first loop). For me it's maybe comparable to DDP (first loop).

EOJ · « **Reply #175 on:** March 20, 2011, 04:23:36 PM »

Yeah, I'll have to try that "let 10K medals drop off the screen" thing to keep the rank low.

EOJ · « **Reply #176 on:** March 22, 2011, 05:10:48 AM »

Alright, in PS 1.01 I got to stage 6 with the rank about halfway full, and five spare lives (no miss). Really cruising. I started letting medals drop in Stage 6 and the rank slowly lowered. Then I broke my medal chain. This is where the pain began.

Apparently only the 10K medals lower the rank when they drop off the screen, so I had to try and get the medal values back up to max, which can take a long time in stage 6. In the process, the rank maxed out. I got to the snakes section and lost almost all of my lives one by one in almost rapid fire succession (deaths do little to lower the rank), and broke my medal chain again - those damn lasers are so fast with max rank. Anyway, it was game over soon after.

Moral of the story: don't break your medal chain in 1.01, especially in stage 6.

EOJ · « **Reply #177 on:** April 15, 2019, 01:11:58 AM »

I've been playing the PCB again and with Lace I can get 900k~1 million on stage 1 consistently (which is far more fun than it sounds), and about 3.5 million at the end of Stage 2. Still need to work on the rest of the game, but this is better than I was doing 10 years ago!

Anyone (PLASMO???) care to share some tips for milking bosses after triggering the infinite lives? Just time out the bosses, use invincibility for points, bomb at the right times, or something more? I timed out the Stage 7 boss, maybe for the first time, and I saw a cool final pattern I don't recall seeing before (shooting out those swords in all directions over and over) which I milked with bombs for an extra 500k.

Monouchi · « **Reply #178 on:** April 25, 2019, 01:34:19 AM »

Trying to get a hang of the counters to get that second item-extend.
Just noticed that the rose hips doesnt add to the counter, facepalm for that.

Now, in the shmups thread, it is said that the Normal/special ver handles rank differently.
Anyone experimented around this?

Im trying to get the non inf lives 1cc and noticed that what really raises the rank is grabbing power ups and keeping the rose-cracker fully charged.

Plasmo · « **Reply #179 on:** April 25, 2019, 05:59:39 AM »

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Anyone (PLASMO???) care to share some tips for milking bosses after triggering the infinite lives? Just time out the bosses, use invincibility for points, bomb at the right times, or something more? I timed out the Stage 7 boss, maybe for the first time, and I saw a cool final pattern I don't recall seeing before (shooting out those swords in all directions over and over) which I milked with bombs for an extra 500k.

After you get inf lives, just milk everything to the max. Time out every boss and midboss for this. The swords on the last boss are his timeout pattern and it's very lucrative indeed. If you time it really well, you can actually survive that pattern without the boss ramming into you and milk it with your RC. This is very tough to do but essential for scoring. The exact movement for this is kinda tricky to explain, but it basically involves letting the boss sweep horizontally, while dodging him as late as possible. If you start your movement too early, he will be able to home in on you and kill you.

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Now, in the shmups thread, it is said that the Normal/special ver handles rank differently.

With Special you mean that beta version on Mame? Rank behaves the same there. I think this was debunked some time ago.

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Im trying to get the non inf lives 1cc and noticed that what really raises the rank is grabbing power ups and keeping the rose-cracker fully charged.

Power ups and charged RC are both not too bad for rank. Check out this link for some exact numbers: http://archerstg.web.fc2.com/pinksweets/bitterrank.htm

What's your approach to the non inf lives clear? Do you plan to max out the rank eventually? If yes, then don't worry about it at all and let it max out around stage 4 or 5. If you want to go low rank non inf lives, then try to copy the routes you find on youtube (plenty of videos available), which in short means: don't pick up anything at all.