Preference: DFK 1.5 or Black Label?

Special World · January 11, 2011, 02:43:40 AM

I was wondering how those of you who've played Black Label would compare it to 1.5, in both depth and fun factor?

I bought 1.5 and have come to accept that it's not really my style, and instead I've switched to Arrange A, which I still don't play as fervently as I would any other Cave release. I think I prefer Arrange A because I just can't get down with hyper bullet canceling. I was initially excited as I love bullet canceling in other games, where bullets cancel immediately upon enemy death and rain down shinies, but I don't get the same thrill out of the fast/slow decay of enemy shots.

I'm trying to get myself hyped for Black Label, though. I already have it preordered because I'm a huge nerd for anything Cave, but I'd like to hear what you guys think. Whichever Cave game is your preference, I wish you the best of luck and skill in your scoring/1CCing endeavors

GaijinPunch · January 11, 2011, 08:05:11 AM

Quote from: Special World on January 11, 2011, 02:43:40 AM
I was wondering how those of you who've played Black Label would compare it to 1.5, in both depth and fun factor?

I will never get over 1.5 not having the "traditional" Cave model.
3 ships, 3 extends, 3 bombs (and no auto-bomb). I guess the selectable autobomb in BL helps, but it's still annoying when you're waiting.

Edge: BL (but note I've not played it more than a few credits).

brentsg · January 11, 2011, 09:27:34 AM

BL by a mile for me. I've owned it for about a year now and I love it as much as the week I got it.

Much more excitement, with more aggressive bullet patterns.
Score largely dependent on item grabs (stars).
More accessible for new players than 1.5.
Red mode risk/reward element.
Bullet cancel by killing enemies .. But only certain colors.
Bullet cancel with yellow or white bees.
Bomb and life items cancel all bullets on screen.
Best Cave soundtrack.
Can turn off auto bomb.
Futari-like difficulty modes.
Can "bank" hypers with autobomb off.
Hypers are detuned some, and are somewhat useless on bosses.
Chains don't break as easily.
Yagawa game.
Single loop game!
Automatic URA boss route with Power mode.

If only I had the DVD.. Sniff..

Shalashaska · January 11, 2011, 11:54:44 AM

Like GP I've only played a few credits of BL but I found it much more interesting and fun than 1.5.

emphatic · January 11, 2011, 02:22:16 PM

Quote from: Shalashaska on January 11, 2011, 11:54:44 AM
Like GP I've only played a few credits of BL but I found it much more interesting and fun than 1.5.

zlk · January 11, 2011, 04:34:15 PM

Black label for me. In 1.5 I still have no idea whatsover how to trigger the hidden bosses so that I can get to the second loop. Destroy the silos before the tanks hit them doesn't always seem to work for me. I don't get it. I would rather play black label with one loop and great music.

Special World · January 11, 2011, 06:06:05 PM

Quote from: zlk on January 11, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
Black label for me. In 1.5 I still have no idea whatsover how to trigger the hidden bosses so that I can get to the second loop. Destroy the silos before the tanks hit them doesn't always seem to work for me. I don't get it. I would rather play black label with one loop and great music.

I believe you have to use a hyper before the first midboss as well. Sometimes I mess up and a silo gets destroyed, but I'm pretty sure it's always been my fault when the hidden bosses don't appear.

I'm glad that Black Label is only one loop as well, though I'm probably not skilled enough to get to the end of it: videos make it look pretty crazy. Also happy to see that people seem to prefer it, and that I have another Yagawa game to look forward to this February.

drunkninja · January 12, 2011, 10:53:59 PM

Quote from: zlk on January 11, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
Black label for me. In 1.5 I still have no idea whatsover how to trigger the hidden bosses so that I can get to the second loop. Destroy the silos before the tanks hit them doesn't always seem to work for me. I don't get it. I would rather play black label with one loop and great music.

IIRC it's:

Destroy the silos before the tanks run into them
Don't use bombs before destroying silos (which of course means don't get hit if you're in bomb or strong mode)
Have a full hyper gauge
Collect both bees at the beginning of the stage

Anyways, based on what I've seen, I think I'll end up preferring Black Label, but we'll see how it pans out.

skykid · January 14, 2011, 08:25:45 PM

Quote from: brentsg on January 11, 2011, 09:27:34 AM
BL by a mile for me. I've owned it for about a year now and I love it as much as the week I got it.

Much more excitement, with more aggressive bullet patterns.
Score largely dependent on item grabs (stars).
More accessible for new players than 1.5.
Red mode risk/reward element.
Bullet cancel by killing enemies .. But only certain colors.
Bullet cancel with yellow or white bees.
Bomb and life items cancel all bullets on screen.
Best Cave soundtrack.
Can turn off auto bomb.
Futari-like difficulty modes.
Can "bank" hypers with autobomb off.
Hypers are detuned some, and are somewhat useless on bosses.
Chains don't break as easily.
Yagawa game.
Single loop game!
Automatic URA boss route with Power mode.

If only I had the DVD.. Sniff..

This really does sound way more interesting. And I have to admit, the soundtrack is great - maybe the best Cave soundtrack of them all in terms of overall quality, and music is really important in games (shmups especially.)

brentsg · January 14, 2011, 08:58:20 PM

Quote from: skykid on January 14, 2011, 08:25:45 PM
This really does sound way more interesting. And I have to admit, the soundtrack is great - maybe the best Cave soundtrack of them all in terms of overall quality, and music is really important in games (shmups especially.)

It may be a flawed game, from a master player perspective.. as Prometheus said, but damn if it's not FAR more compelling to me.

There are some Cave titles that I admit are amazing games. Ketsui is a game that I'd put into this category. For whatever reason, I play a credit or two and I'm good. I move on to something else. Then there are Cave games that are probably lesser games, but they keep me playing and playing and playing. One credit turns into the next, and next thing you know hours have passed. DFK BL and MMP are like this for me.

EOJ · January 14, 2011, 09:10:09 PM

Quote from: brentsg on January 14, 2011, 08:58:20 PM

It may be a flawed game, from a master player perspective..

What 'master player' has said this game is flawed? Opinions from people who haven't played the game do not count.

Kaneda · January 14, 2011, 09:54:51 PM

Most of them, apparently. Adverse has talked with a few I think and the milking you can do with B-P kind of breaks the game. I watched one guy sit in the top corner of the screen for long stretches at a time, not moving or dodging, his score quickly rocketing. You still need to know what sections you can do that in and there's still skill involved, but it doesn't have the longevity of other Cave games.

I like the game though. Strong style is a lot of fun.

EOJ · January 14, 2011, 10:04:59 PM

"Most of them"? Names, please. Otherwise it's just hearsay and speculation. ISO seemed to like it enough to make a superplay DVD.

DFK BL is just a Yagawa game. Love it or hate it. Sitting in a corner hyper-milking cancelled bullets or sitting on a boss in Garegga or Ibara milking tick-points is not all that different.

Anyway, I can't wait to play it again. I've only had the opportunity to put in a handful of credits on the arcade version, and that was months ago.

Kaneda · January 14, 2011, 10:40:45 PM

No need to get sassy. ISO figured it out soon after release and no one seems to play it anymore. In fact, over the past few months, I've seen exactly one guy play it at HEY and he was doing the B-P thing. Most of stage 3 he was playing with one hand and texting with the other, which would understandably turn people off. SWY I still see playing regular DFK, so I guess this one didn't do it for him either. Adverse hangs out with some top players and told me that people weren't into it, so I took his word for it.

Edit: I take it back, I saw one other guy playing it a couple of months ago. He has this awesome bowl cut and frumpy dress I saw hippy girls wearing back in college. He was doing the B-P thing too.

You're right that Yagawa games don't seem to catch on (except for Garegga) and this one is no different. MMP's low popularity has always stunned me.

EOJ · January 14, 2011, 11:37:00 PM

Most top Cave scorers stay away from Yagawa games. Same old story. ISO played MMP too (well, enough to 2-ALL it and make a superplay DVD), maybe that's why he took a shine to DFK BL.

Talk to the guys who get the top scores in Garegga, MMP, Batrider, Ibara, and Pink Sweets. You'll probably get a more positive response from them about DFK BL.

zlk · January 15, 2011, 01:51:54 PM

Isn't there some issue with your ship disappearing while battling Hibachi in strong mode? I am no where near good enough for that to be an issue for me and I really love BL.

EOJ · February 07, 2011, 03:45:15 PM

DFK BL is one of the best shooting games I've played, and one of Yagawa's best to date. Not quite as good as MMP, but it's so much better than DFK 1.5. I love all three styles, but right now BL's B-Power is the best thing since sliced bread for me.

EDIT: Revised after I spent more time with Power style.

Backlashcop · February 22, 2011, 09:10:45 AM

Just thought I'd add my opinion - given that I am a completely new player - I've found DFK: BL much easier to get to grips with than 1.5!

I also have to add that I thought that BL would be just a 'remix' of 1.5, different scoring or something but the differences are astounding! Great value for money :-)