Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu [CAVE 2008]

[EOJ]

So do you think you'll keep it and go for score in the long run, or sell it for something else?

[drboom]

Hey MMM - I just checked your page and didn't see any vids for DFK - are you going to put one up? I'd love to check it out.
I still watch the 373 mil Ketsui replay at least once a week for inspiration.

[MrMonkeyMan]

So do you think you'll keep it and go for score in the long run, or sell it for something else?

I'm sure I'll stick with it a bit more.  It's actually pretty fun when you've got a level 5 hyper and bullets and lasers fill the screen.

And I doubt I'll put any videos up until I can at least figure out how to get some decent chains going.  I hear you can get something like 6 billion points on stage 1, but I can't get more than 1.3 billion.  I'm not sure what he was talking about, but Kotaro posted something over at arcade-extreme about it.  Doesn't make any sense to me though.

[Ast-Kot]

I see ram get over 6billion at the end of the first stage using the power style.....there is a particular way to do the first part of the first stage for reach over 1000 of chain before the fuel thanks but it's so difficult to do... my friend charg the hyoer bar very quickly and he used it immediatly not selcting boost mode (in this mode the hyper gage recharge very fast leeching the enemies bullest) but normal mode...then destruct in the correct order the tanks and catch all the bees and you have to recharge the hyper bar to catch the hidden mid....and the end of the stage he arriver with over 6billions and 4ooo+ of change,,,
The most impressive thinks of the second stage is that he reach at the hidden mid over 10.000 of chain and during the boss fighting he leech it for sevent times before cause the first trasformation explosion....over 25.o0o of chain...

This is my last good score:



What I ve posted on arcade extreme is the score sistem of the game...for exanple to reach more point in the second stage you ave to reach a 1000+ counter till the too big ships apperas at the beginning of the stage..if you do it you reac x2 moltiplicator that improve your chain value and your score....if till the second big ship (the big ships before the mid) you reach over 2000 chain you obtain a x3 moltiplicator...naxt step is at 5000 of chain.....
The score works in a very particular mode....

[MrMonkeyMan]

Yeah, I figured the chain was acting as some kind of multiplier.  It's nice to know I'm encouraged to use hypers again.

I'm sort of getting the hang of it. I can manage 2 billion on stage 1 now.  The bosses on the 2nd loop are haaard without any bombs.

[EOJ]

Official site updated with a Stage 3 map

[EOJ]

I've been digging around 2Ch again. Seems an optimal 2-ALL score is estimated at 7-10 trillion. Other estimated optimal scores are 70bil on Stage 1-2, 120bil on Stage 1-3, 300 bil on Stage 1-4, and 1.6 trillion on Stage 1-5...

[PROMETHEUS]

I've been digging around 2Ch again. Seems an optimal 2-ALL score is estimated at 7-10 trillion. Other estimated optimal scores are 70bil on Stage 1-2, 120bil on Stage 1-3, 300 bil on Stage 1-4, and 1.6 trillion on Stage 1-5...

great, nearly only the 5th stage matters score wise...

[Ast-Kot]

I saw I guy today reach 230billion till TLB Hibachi in Ura Route....

[EOJ]

Highest score I've heard of thus far is a guy at Goody arcade (probably SWY, as he plays there) with over 700bil.

[adverse]

The latest issue of Arcadia claims that the trigger for the Ura loop has been changed for 1.5? 

Can anyone verify this?  Is it still just destroying the big installations before the tanks roll over them?

[EOJ]

Official site updated (on July 25th) with the Stage 4 map:

http://www.cave.co.jp/gameonline/daifukkatu/stage/stage04.html

Sorry, forgot to post this earlier.

[Ast-Kot]

The Ura Loop is a loop with the EX Boss and Hibachi at the end as a TLB...the number of the bullets is the same as the tsuujou loop but you can reach the special mids...in the tsuujou loop the special mid bosses does not appear...
To ura loop: 35bees, All, no-miss no bomb.----I saw a guy do it with this specific.....I'm sure of no miss..the guy i saw finish the first loop with no bomb... ..When you enter the ura loop in your final score the game write EX..
The tanks destruction in the first stage is the first step to reach the ex-mid..if you don't destruct the tank in the right way(MMM posted an image of the right pattern )the 1? and the 2?EX-mid does not appear and you score suck....
If you loose a life during an Ex-mid the next stage Ex-mid does not appear..
If you dont destruct it the nex Ex-Mid appears...(as in the 3? stage)...

[EOJ]

Official site updated with the Stage 5 map:

http://www.cave.co.jp/gameonline/daifukkatu/stage/

Gotta love the title of stage 5: It was a battle only for "Did following that future".

[PROMETHEUS]

Gotta love the title of stage 5: It was a battle only for "Did following that future".

Maybe that's the worst (best?) nonsensical english they've produced in a game -_-

[adverse]

These people need a Gaijin working for them.  Like just one would be fine.  Or at least a consultant.   

[GaijinPunch]

Shit... they just need a gaijin they can email.  I don't see how they got the past tense twice.  Running it through a translator should've only done it once.

[EOJ]

Two bugs have been reported on 2Ch: 1)the game can freeze during the ST5 ura midboss fight (in the first loop, I believe). Anyone experience this yet?
2)If you press the bomb button right after selecting the bomb type, it makes the sound of releasing a bomb and actually counts as a released bomb (you can only use 2 bombs or less if you want to get to the Ura loop). Looks like I'll have to wait for a bug-fixed revision of this game to be available. 

Also, here's a cool comparision of the DDP boss sprites and the DDP:DFK ura midboss sprites (DDP is on the bottom, DDP:DFK on the top) a Japanese dude put together:

http://www.katsakuri.sakura.ne.jp/src/up34574.png

[Ast-Kot]

I normally get the first ura route loop and the game never freeze.....I've also read this bug in 2ch but i'don't if this is true... I've seen a lot of people against the 5?ura route mid and the game has no freezing

[EOJ]

Well the freezes do not occur every time, and indeed are likely very rare. Pink Sweets suffered from Stage 6 and stage 7 freezes (thankfully they released a bug-fixed revision that fixes this). They occurred very rarely, but it was still frustrating as it would screw up a run at the end of the run. Galuda 2 had a freeze bug in the first or second stages that I only experienced once, but that wasn't too bad because it was near the start of the game. The fact this is in the 5th stage is troubling.

I believe the 2ch guy, as all the previous freeze bugs were first reported on 2ch and were accurate.

[GaijinPunch]

I'm going to come out and, at the risk of unpopularity, say that I just have no love for this game.  I met Kaneda the other day to say high, and we both played it.  The auto bomb is just a massive fuck job.  It feels as if some suit had complete creative control over the game and made the developers put it in.  I mean, I haven't played the game for almost two months (it was a few weeks before 1.5 came out).  I had only been to stage 5 one time, and that lasted mere seconds. Even still, I got the last boss down to about 20 pixels of energy on my first try off 1.5.

That's just not supposed to happen, definitely not w/ a *pachi.  Yeah, I know I can choose Power Style, but c'mon... why can't I have a "standard" play style? Not going to buy this until it's really, really cheap.  It's a damn shame b/c if they had a standard 3 bombs ship w/ no auto-bomb, it would be teh excellent.

[Ast-Kot]

The bomb style is not a bad style I saw people make very good scores at Alpha using this mode(over 200billlion) but it's very hard to get a good score, cause the hyper meter charge is so slowly

I think that the autobomb is a non sense..also in power style you have a autobomb...when people that does not know the game play in bpmb mode other gamers waiting go away for 30 minute....

[EOJ]

until it's really, really cheap.

I think that's going to happen sooner rather than later - I can see this dropping to Galuda 2 levels (for a new kit). Most JP players seem pretty lukewarm on the game, and like you said, the auto-bomb feature sucks (and the lack of an option to disable it is probably the dumbest thing CAVE has ever done in an arcade game - though it's worse for the arcade ops than the players!). Of course, there's always Power-style.

[GaijinPunch]

Kaneda and I sat there for like 30 minutes or so waiting for one guy.  The worst was when he fucked his run up on 2-2, he decided to quit.  It took like 2-3 minutes for the credit to clear b/c of the autobomb.

[EOJ]

They should have at least put in a reset code a la Pink Sweets. 

[adverse]

I'm going to come out and, at the risk of unpopularity, say that I just have no love for this game.  I met Kaneda the other day to say high, and we both played it.  The auto bomb is just a massive fuck job.  It feels as if some suit had complete creative control over the game and made the developers put it in.  I mean, I haven't played the game for almost two months (it was a few weeks before 1.5 came out).  I had only been to stage 5 one time, and that lasted mere seconds. Even still, I got the last boss down to about 20 pixels of energy on my first try off 1.5.

That's just not supposed to happen, definitely not w/ a *pachi.  Yeah, I know I can choose Power Style, but c'mon... why can't I have a "standard" play style? Not going to buy this until it's really, really cheap.  It's a damn shame b/c if they had a standard 3 bombs ship w/ no auto-bomb, it would be teh excellent.

Yeah, I feel what you're saying.  On the one hand I noticed that there were a lot of noobs playing the game at the two arcades I go to, since autobomb makes things so easy.  This is a good thing in that Bomb mode makes the game accessible.  On the other hand it leads to pretty stupid wait times.  I've noticed that score players tend to come out on weekends and occupy the machine.  I imagine that if a bomb style player gets on, it's probably time to get lunch.     But these problems are why I've been playing MFBL more than this game.

If Cave were going to make a black label of this, I'd like to see the following changes:

1.  Auto bomb gone or somehow made manageable
2.  Hyper meter builds slower.  Power mode is basically just switching from shot to laser over and over again, to the point where the danmaku themselves barely have meaning.

[Kaneda]

It's a shame about the auto-bomb thing because the game really is very very difficult. Playing just to clear it feels about as satisfying as credit-feeding any other shooter; you just don't have to pay much attention or care. I do see the appeal in going for top scores and it seems to allow for even more flexibility than the other 'Pachis which is a good thing. Still, the game feels so dense that I won't bother learning it in an arcade and will wait for a cheap board or a (ugh, 360) port.

I will admit that I really enjoy watching players that know what they're doing play. Stage 5 is so long that it's pretty exciting to see the whole thing chained and watching the score just sky-rocket. It's still DDP and it stays true to the series by really separating the men from the boys with the exponential scores.

[SuperPang]

Yeah, I know I can choose Power Style, but c'mon... why can't I have a "standard" play style? Not going to buy this until it's really, really cheap.  It's a damn shame b/c if they had a standard 3 bombs ship w/ no auto-bomb, it would be teh excellent.

I hear where you're coming from. There are things I love about the game but some decisions are quite confusing. I don't know if its trying to be a very unorthodox approach to accessibility or a nudge in an unorthodox way of playing for score or what. I sincerely hope its not a decision made by a suit as you speculate.

If this were to have a black label, and one where they revert to DOJ rules, its going to make this look crap.

[GaijinPunch]

So as a self-proclaimed "sucky" player, have you cleared the first loop yet, SP?  Did you clear Death Smiles?  Just curious...don't meant to put you on the spot.

[FrederikJurk]

Just to throw my useless two cents in on the autobomb discussion...

...I?m not sure if autobombing really attracts new players. The two times I played a game mode with that feature was Batrider Easy and Blue Wish Ressurection, and in both cases I found autobombing more frustrating than actually losing a ship - it?s the games way of telling you "If it wasn?t for this bomb you?d be dead now". The magic of bombing manually lies in quickly judging a tight situation - can you do this without bombing? If so, you feel proud of yourself for overcoming a certain pattern. If not, you take the easy way out, but have less bombs for the rest of the run. A risk/reward situation, so to say - play safe or play hard. Autobombing has nothing of that.

So all I can imagine autobombing will do for newbie players is "whoa, this game is impossible, good thing I?m invincible". You don?t get introduced to the game with respect for the challenges ahead. An "easy" mode with traditional bombing would have been MUCH better for that purpose IMHO. If you?re a newbie and you think you suck, surviving relatively easy challenges makes your confidence grow. But being assaultes by a cloud of bullets and then being saved by the game like some overprotective daddy sounds stupid and if I was a newbie this would put me off for certain. These are training wheels, a NERF-mode. (Not that I will ever be playing this game, but whatever...) All in all I do think that Cave is moving in a good direction with making games more accessible in general by including extra modes, but not by treating new players like they?re retarded.