A quick introduction and a long question :)

[neomoe]

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum and would first just like to introduce myself.  Some of you may recognize me as neo_moe from the neo geo forums.  Anyway, I am 29 years old and have been playing CAVE shmups for the past couple of years.  I have all the ports for Ps1, Ps2, 360 and the DS version of Ketsui...but I have never played an actual CAVE PCB.

I have pretty much made up my mind that I am going to get either a candy cab (most like Sega Astro) or a supergun and am in the market for a CAVE pcb to go along with it.  I dont have a ton of disposable income, so I gotta make sure whichever game I get is gonna be awesome since it's got to last me for quite some time....so I thought why not ask you guys and get some expert advice on the subject.

Ok, first some ground rules.  I know this will make some of you cringe....but for the time being, I don't want to get any PCB that has been ported already...I've already played the crap out of all the ports and I am looking for a totally new gaming experience.  So right off the bat, that eliminates the following games...

Donpachi
Dodonpachi
Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou
Espgaluda
Mushihimesama
Ibara
Deathsmiles

Ok, next rule...i dont want to get a PCB that will be ported in the near future...yeah I know, we are all skeptical of the quality of the Ketsui port (or even if it will be released), but I would feel like a knuckle head dropping several hundred dollars on it when I could potentiall get if for like $70.  I know alot of you may hate that idea, but again...money is an issue.  So that takes the following games off the list:

Ketsui
Mushihimesama Futari

Ok, the next stipulation is that I dont want to play any game that has been emulated in MAME.  I know, using MAME sucks but again, I am looking for a totally new gaming experience and I have played those games to death as well.  So that means these games are ineligible:

Dangun Feveron
Esprade
Guwange
Progear

So, if my knowledge of CAVE games is somewhat accurate...that means I am left with the following choices:

Espgaluda 2
Pink Sweets
Muchi Muchi Pork
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu

So of these games....which is gonna make me most happy?   here are some general thoughts running through my mind.  

Pink Sweets:  I love Ibara, but the general consensus seems that Pink Sweets is not too great.  I am still interested in the game (especially since I doubt it will ever get ported), but I feel it is kinda low on the priority list)

Espgaluda 2:  I am really intrigued by this game....but the problem with this is that I have played the hell out of the original.  Is the sequel gonna offer me anything new?  Or let's even start with a more basic question....is it even better than the original?

Dodnpachi Daifukkatsu:  Ok, lemme preface this by saying the Donpachi series is my favorite CAVE series.   I love all the games so the thought of getting this game is very tempting.  My concerns are that
1) price...I have no idea how much this costs, and I am afraid that even a bare pcb might be out of my range.  
2) In all honesty, I feel there is a pretty good chance that this could be a potential xbox 360 port.  I mean, if Futari does well, why wouldnt they bring out DFK?  the Donpachi series is one of their more popular ones, so it seems like a likely port candidate to me....and if I drop copius amounts of $$ on a pcb I would feel like a shmuck if a port was announced in the coming months.

So that leaves us with....
Muchi Muchi Pork:  In all honesty, I am really leaning towards this one.  i think everything about the game looks fantastic.  From the little I have seen, it seems like a wacky Ketsui.  I also feel the price isnt too bad and there is little likelihood this will ever get ported.  

So what do you guys think?  Is Muchi Muchi Pork going to bring me mucho mucho happiness?  Or would i be a fool to pass up some fail-safe good games like Espgaluda 2?  And is DFK a pipe dream, or is it more within my grasp than I think?  And if so, is that a clear choice over Pork?  Or is Pink Sweets even worth a look?  Let's discuss, shall we?


EDIT:  Please don't suggest Deathsmiles 2, ok thnx

[kernow]

The port of Ibara pales in comparison to the PCB. You should get that anyway, plus it doesn't matter if you've played the port a lot because its totally different playing it on the PCB. I wouldn't eliminate a game because you've played the port of it.

I've played the ports of espgaluda, ibara and well, to be honest I'd take the PCB any damn day.

[EOJ]

MMP is excellent, but it will probably be ported soon (Wakabayashi hinted at this in a recent interview), though if so it may just be XBLA.
DDPDFK will also likely get ported in the next year or so.

Espgaluda 2 is a fun game, and not too expensive, so it's a nice starting point. It's much harder than the first game, with a more complicated scoring system. No port in sight for this one.

Pink Sweets is fun (IMO) but you probably won't like it. Most people hate the game, as you can't play it like any other shooter. You have to trigger infinite lives (which is a pain in the ass), then play it as a pure score attack. Boss milking gets tedious and monotonous after awhile, and the game is one of the hardest ever made. Of all of Cave's SH3 games, this one has the least likelihood of ever getting ported.

[SuperPang]

I think Wakabayashi said he'd like to see MMP ported but I'd still be quite surprised to see it ahead of DFK, DS2 and Espgaluda 2. I'd also be surprised to see any of the newer titles on XBLA as to make that worthwhile it has to be a worldwide release. For a Japanese market, disc releases are the only way to make money when its not easily emulated.

[fuse]

If it makes you feel any better, I can totally agree with your sentiments re: ports. I am in the same boat as you in that I do not have a great deal of disposable income, and ports will always be my preference for this sole reason. Thankfully I do have friends (and at one point housemates) who *do* have the cash for PCBs, so despite being quite price-conscious I also have the benefit of being able to dabble in a variety of titles.

As someone who does not like Ibara, I was never going to really like Pink Sweets, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that I did actually quite enjoy Muchi Muchi Pork. If you do like Ibara, chances are you will love MMP. Not sure what the chances of it being ported, but judging from above posts it seems likely.

Galuda 2 in my mind is a fantastic game - much better than the original IMO (not to say I don't like the original). It looks and sounds gorgeous, and the additional kakusei mode really does change the way you play quite a lot. I would recommend this highly.

DFK looks brilliant (I have not played this yet), and if you're a fan of the DDP series then obviously this should be high up your 'want to play list' - but yeah, I think this is going to be above and beyond the most pricey option, and also a likely candidate if Cave decide to keep up the 360 ports.

Hope this helps

[battle gregor]

i dunno i found espgaluda 2 to be very fiddly and a bit of a memorizer(when scoring) to be honest. what is your skill level at these games?? if you've already 1cc all the ports and mame stuff then you'd probably have the skills to do espgaluda 2.. the 5th and 6th level bosses are brutes 

[zlk]

Unless you have an autofire circuit on your "b" button, don't get Pink Sweets.  In fact, just don't buy PS.  The odds of you liking it are slim at best.

DDP DFK will eventually get a port, most likely in the near future.  The pcb is a bit costly at the moment.  Wait on DDP DFK.  

That leaves two choices left: MMP and ESPG2.  I think you could buy either and have a great time.

MMP is fun and probably never will be ported.  There are three game modes to choose from and getting to the second loop presents quite a challenge. You won't be bored with this PCB for a long time.  

Espg2 is much harder than Espg.  If you played the original to death, you probably liked it quite a bit.  My guess is you will love to play Espg2.  The game probably will be ported eventually, but it make take a few years.  

[neomoe]

thanks for all the replies guys...some good info here.

@EOJ - really surprised to hear about the possibility of a MMP port...whether it be on Live or physical media....that's welcome news for sure.

@Kernow - the likelihood of me getting an ibara board in the future is pretty high...from my understanding it is probably around $250....which is pretty reasonable.  But that will be down the road...I don't want it to be my first pcb.  But as far as getting other games that have been ported,  that is probably unlikely.  I dont think I could drop $800 on Deathsmiles when I got a perfrectly good port.

Anyway, as I get some free time I think I need to check out some more Espgaluda 2 videos.  W/ these developments about MMP and the fact that ESP2 is not too expensive it seems to be a pretty good choice.

thanks again for the input everyone

[Chi]

As someone who does not like Ibara, I was never going to really like Pink Sweets

As someone who loves Ibara, I was surprised to find I really didn't enjoy Pink Sweets.  Having said that, I've a friend who can't stand Ibara and loves Pink Sweets to bits!

As Kernow said, the port of Ibara is pretty crap compared to the PCB (it was the first PS2 shooter I ever bought and enjoyed it enough, but once I got the PCB there was no looking back, especially since you can sell the PS2 version for a sizable percentage of the price of the PCB).  Ibara is dirt cheap to pick up though (the other boards you mention are 3-5x more expensive) - $250 is almost full kit pricing, a PCB should give you change from $200.

Both MMP and Espgaluda II are excellent games.  Personally, my preference would be towards MMP.  Although I'd still take Ketsui over MMP if you haven't played much of either, port or no port   I only sold it because I needed the cash and hoped the news of a port would bring the prices back down... definitely one I will rebuy in the future.

EDIT: For the record, this is the order in which I bought Cave stuff...
(#1) 鋳薔薇 [Ibara] (PCB only)
(#2) Espgaluda II (Full Kit)
(#3) ケツイ　絆地獄たち [Ketsui Kizuna Jigoku Tachi] (Partial Kit)
(#4) プロギアの嵐 [Progear no Arashi] (Phoenixed PCB only + CPS2 A board)
(#5) ピンクスウーツ ～鋳薔薇それから～ [Pink Sweets ~Ibara Sorekara~] (PCB only)
(#6) Espgaluda (Partial Kit)
(#7) 怒首領蜂 大往生 [Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou] (PCB only)
(#8) 怒首領蜂 [Dodonpachi] (PCB only, Japanese Release)
(#9) Esp Ra.De. (PCB only, International Release)
(#10) 虫姫さま [Mushihime-sama] (PCB only)
(#11) 弾銃フィーバロン [Dangun Feveron] (PCB only)
(#12) デススマイルズ [Death Smiles] (Full Kit)
(#13=) デススマイルズ メガブラークレベル[Death Smiles Megablack Label] (Full Kit)
(#13=) むちむちポーク！[Muchi Muchi Pork] (PCB only)

[skykid]

Just picked up an ESP2 myself and it's absolutely stunning. It makes the first game boring by comparison. It's challenging sure, but doable. I was up to the fourth stage boss on a credit after only a few hours play (not with many lives though - and he's a heck of a wall too).

It's the most incredible looking Cave game I've ever played. Just beautiful. I don't think you'd go too far wrong with this, although if you've played the original to death (I haven't) then perhaps MMP will offer you a newer experience.

[SuperPang]

The use of colour in that game is beautiful.

[skykid]

The use of colour in that game is beautiful.

It's a real looker man. And that euphoric stage 3 music drop when the mid boss comes ramping up those pylons: pure shmup nirvana.