New guy, looking for advice

[Softdrink 117]

Hello all,

I stumbled on these forums pretty recently, and thought this would probably be the best place to discuss a sort of conundrum I've been having. (Mods, if this is in the wrong section please move it.)

I'm a mid-level player-- capable of 1cc'ing CAVE shooters if I try hard enough, but not actively working on a scoring project at the moment. However, I've had a hard time getting access to the titles because of a) my lack of an Xbox and b) the very, very delicate stance on emulation at my college. The iOS ports have been a godsend, and I've spent countless hours playing Mushihime-sama and DOJ/DFK. I've also managed to emulate DOJ's PS2 release on my desktop, which is excellent. I have an arcade stick and am planning to dual mod it over the summer.

Here's my problem:
I have a substantial amount of disposable income right now (for a college student), and want to spend a significant chunk of it on CAVE ports. This means getting an NTSC/J Xbox, which I'm more than willing to do. However, given CAVE's recent comments about moving to 'next gen' hardware, and the confirmation of a title for the Vita, I'm not sure that this is the best choice at this particular moment in time.

In short-- is it worth buying an NTSC/J Xbox right now and possibly missing out on some of CAVE's future releases, or should I wait on whatever might be coming?
To clarify, I probably wouldn't be able to afford another console any time in the next six to nine months, possibly much longer, so I want to make the best use of this money I can.

Thanks in advance for any help.

------------------------------

A bit more about me:
I'm American, currently enrolled at a UC studying mechanical engineering. I played my first CAVE game at the now-demolished arcade in Squaw Valley resort's Olympic House. It was DDP, and although I had basically no idea what I was doing I loved it. Got the second highest score on that machine on my first quarter, then had to leave. I've been searching for a way to get my hands on CAVE's titles ever since. I bought the US release of Deathsmiles, and though I enjoyed it felt it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I only obtained a pc powerful enough for emulation recently (didn't even have a laptop), and have spent the last few months playing the iOS releases. I've 1cc'ed Deathsmiles (iOS, twice) and Futari/Original (sort of. Died on Larsa's last pattern, continued for the hell of it, won without taking another hit), in addition to several non-CAVE shooters.

[brokenhalo]

an american xbox 360 gives you access to every cave game released this console generation with the exception of ketsui, ddp doj bl, and the upcoming mushihimesama hd. that being said, there were a ton of good shooters released for xbox 360, so you really can't go wrong picking up one now.

[Softdrink 117]

I'm a huge fan of Mushihime-sama, so I'm very interested in the HD release, especially considering the inclusion of 1.5. And DOJ is my favorite DDP right now (with DFK a close second; haven't played SDOJ), so again, the NTSC/J makes sense.

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear in the introductory post.

[Fu-ZAN]

It all depends if you plan to play every games on the japanese Xbox 360 or not. I know that for myself I wouldn't buy one no because I can play to any games up to Muchi Muchi Pork on MAME. I would have died a few months back to get an Xbox 360 and play all those games, but for a student this represents a high cost when you consider all these games.

Also, it's probably worth bying it now if you imply that Cave is gonna port on another console soon. There is a ton of game and you never know if in 2 years you'll want to play to Galuda II (I don't remember the list of Cave games that are supported internationnaly). For now, about a dozen of Cave games on Xbox 360. In 2014 there probably won't be more than 3/4 games ported on the future console Cave is working on.

[Softdrink 117]

It all depends if you plan to play every games on the japanese Xbox 360 or not. I know that for myself I wouldn't buy one no because I can play to any games up to Muchi Muchi Pork on MAME. I would have died a few months back to get an Xbox 360 and play all those games, but for a student this represents a high cost when you consider all these games.

The cost is basically the stumbling block for me. I want to support CAVE in their work, but I don't really have the funds to do so. However, if possible, yes, I probably would want to play them all eventually.

I have no problems with emulating, except that the consequences for IP fraud (which would be downloading ROMs/BIOSes) here can include expulsion. Which is a problem. That, and that I'm struggling to find a version of MAME which still has SH3 emulation. AFAIK it's been removed from all archived versions of the emulator.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fu-ZAN]

The version of MAME I'm using (0.143) can play all of the Cave games except Death Smiles I think. If you want to support them buy a game, if you want to play them all with your budget play on MAME.

[EOJ]

SH3 games play like shit in MAME. Also, I don't support piracy.

A JP X360 is a must. Buy it and all the ports and enjoy!

[Orochi S]

SH3 games play like shit in MAME. Also, I don't support piracy.

A JP X360 is a must. Buy it and all the ports and enjoy!

Absolutely right. You won't regret getting a JP X360 - there are some great non-Cave shooters on it too (I love Grev games such as Under Defeat HD and Mamoru-kun). And surely you don't want to miss out on Mushi HD!

[Special World]

There's a metric ton of Cave games on the 360/J360. It would be a sound investment if you have the extra cash. By the time we get firm details about Cave releases on other systems, you'll probably have a little extra spending money again. Also, would you rather buy a system for one Cave game or 10 Cave games?

[TimingTripod40]

SH3 games play like shit in MAME. Also, I don't support piracy.

This. Have fun trying to score with almost no slowdown.

[Monouchi]

J360 = win.

[SomeMist]

keep in mind that you can play 98%(ish) US titles on a J360, however, a lot of games that have been localized in the US are region-locked to US 360s i.e. El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron, Earth Defense Force: Insect Armageddon, Cave Ports like Deathsmiles and Akai Katana (more-than-likely) and DVD movies.

then again, if you're main goal is to play all available cave games, a J360 is the best way to go. Luckily I own both a US360 and a J360 so that I can play other titles that are US/J region-locked.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Max modes on Mushihimesama 1.5 is one of the best things I've ever played in my life. I'd buy a J360 but I have all the arcade boards already.

[Orochi S]

Max modes on Mushihimesama 1.5 is one of the best things I've ever played in my life. I'd buy a J360 but I have all the arcade boards already.

Muchi Spork, if you can afford the PCBs I'm surprised you haven't got yourself a X360 for all the arrange modes and that - DFK BL Arrange is the shizznit!

[Softdrink 117]

It sounds like the universal conclusion is that the Xbox is the way to go. And also that SH3 in MAME doesn't work.

In that case, I better go preorder Mushi HD. 

Thanks all.

Any particular recommendations on which online store(s) to use? I already know play-asia.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Max modes on Mushihimesama 1.5 is one of the best things I've ever played in my life. I'd buy a J360 but I have all the arcade boards already.

Muchi Spork, if you can afford the PCBs I'm surprised you haven't got yourself a X360 for all the arrange modes and that - DFK BL Arrange is the shizznit!

But I still don't have them all (Cave pcbs) yet. I must say Shin mode on AK is enticing but for the most part people say arrange modes are inferior and that combined with the fact that I'm not really sick of any of my boards yet (and may never be) hasn't resulted in a 360 purchase. I also don't like the look of games that combine resolutions (HD for some and low res for background or whatever). That should be fixable if you can get everything to output to a CRT though and Pink Sweets with a more playable rank is interesting... Everything in time I guess. But the boards feel like magic to be honest, I can't explain it. They are the best gaming experience of my entire life. What I want next is DonPachi... Anyway the max modes on Mushi 1.5 are going to blow everybody away.

[Softdrink 117]

Well, I just placed an order for an Xbox (the 4GB slim), Mushi HD LE, and the DFK double pack.

I can't believe I'm actually excited about this considering the cost (shipping... oh god shipping), but I am. Something to look forward to once summer begins.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

The original and maniac max modes are 10/10, total bliss. It's worth whatever the price is. Nothing else compares (other than other Cave games). That is unless they lower the difficulty for the 360. They have done that on games before. If you stay sane while getting the maniac max 1CC then they unfortunately lowered it. I'm still looking for my marbles.

[Softdrink 117]

The original and maniac max modes are 10/10, total bliss. It's worth whatever the price is. Nothing else compares (other than other Cave games). That is unless they lower the difficulty for the 360. They have done that on games before. If you stay sane while getting the maniac max 1CC then they unfortunately lowered it. I'm still looking for my marbles.

I really, really hope they don't change the difficulty. Playing at arcade settings, and being utterly crushed by them, is a big part of the appeal of CAVE's titles for me.

[TimingTripod40]

That is unless they lower the difficulty for the 360. They have done that on games before.

When have they done that? The only 360 game I know of that's slightly easier from having extra slowdown is Futari and it's barely noticeable unless you play both versions back-to-back.

Also, to topic starter, get Futari. Your life will never be the same.

[Softdrink 117]

Also, to topic starter, get Futari. Your life will never be the same.

I have it on iOS, and absolutely love it. Right now I'm trying to do an actual Original 1cc (as I said in the OP, I got to Larsa and died on her last pattern. Horribly discouraging).

I'm definitely going to get it for Xbox. Having a little trouble finding it right now-- out of stock most places.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

That is unless they lower the difficulty for the 360. They have done that on games before.

When have they done that? The only 360 game I know of that's slightly easier from having extra slowdown is Futari and it's barely noticeable unless you play both versions back-to-back.

Also, to topic starter, get Futari. Your life will never be the same.

Pink Sweets, probably Pork, and they have said in at least one interview that console games get different difficulty. 

[TimingTripod40]

Didn't they remove the infinite lives trick from Sweets? I think that would make it quite a bit harder. Also with Pork from my understanding the game does default to an easier version 1.01 but you can change it back to 1.0 by going into options.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

It would have made it harder if they didn't lower the rank. Anyway I am just going by second hand knowledge (reading posts and watching videos). I haven't played any Cave games on X360.

[Special World]

Max modes on Mushihimesama 1.5 is one of the best things I've ever played in my life. I'd buy a J360 but I have all the arcade boards already.

Muchi Spork, if you can afford the PCBs I'm surprised you haven't got yourself a X360 for all the arrange modes and that - DFK BL Arrange is the shizznit!

But I still don't have them all (Cave pcbs) yet. I must say Shin mode on AK is enticing but for the most part people say arrange modes are inferior and that combined with the fact that I'm not really sick of any of my boards yet (and may never be) hasn't resulted in a 360 purchase. I also don't like the look of games that combine resolutions (HD for some and low res for background or whatever). That should be fixable if you can get everything to output to a CRT though and Pink Sweets with a more playable rank is interesting... Everything in time I guess. But the boards feel like magic to be honest, I can't explain it. They are the best gaming experience of my entire life. What I want next is DonPachi... Anyway the max modes on Mushi 1.5 are going to blow everybody away.

Shin is pretty fun, as is Pink Sweets Arrange. DFK Arrange A is much better than vanilla DFK, imo.

Totally psyched for Mushi 1.5, though. Wish they would have included it on the disc and the original game as DLC.

[Chempop]

Did you compare prices at NCSX.com?  They are based out of NY so shipping a console might be a lot cheaper than getting it over seas from play-Asia... Not sure exactly, but might be worth looking into if your order hasn't shipped yet.

My advice would be not to rush on trying to own everything, but rather enjoy just a few titles at a time.
Over 12 cave games can last a lifetime if you aren't the type to clear one and move straight to the next (like I do hehe).  Regardless, they are timeless and never get boring.  When you can really kick a game's ass there is such a rewarding feeling. 

Also, make sure you can get your hands on a 27" CRT to Tate and plop your stick (preferably with full Seimitsu hardware) smack dab in front of it for a near-perfect arcade style experience.

[Softdrink 117]

Did you compare prices at NCSX.com?  They are based out of NY so shipping a console might be a lot cheaper than getting it over seas from play-Asia... Not sure exactly, but might be worth looking into if your order hasn't shipped yet.

Also, make sure you can get your hands on a 27" CRT to Tate and plop your stick (preferably with full Seimitsu hardware) smack dab in front of it for a near-perfect arcade style experience.

Thanks. I did check prices, and they're basically the same (their prices on the consoles are actually higher, but it about evens out counting the shipping cost).

However, I'm going to be canceling my order with play-asia and redoing it via NCSX, because I do not feel at all comfortable giving out the information they want me to provide for their additional verification. I should have researched this before making my order-- oh well. Lessons learned.

I don't have a CRT, but I do have a 23" LCD that I bought specifically because it has virtually nonexistent response delay. Unfortunately it isn't as accurate as a CRT in terms of arcade reproduction, but it's far more convenient in dorms.

[Softdrink 117]

Okay, new order has been made, and old one canceled.

Yay! 

Now to buy a couple other games on Amazon before the prices get absurd... Definitely getting Futari, probably also MMP/Pink Sweets. Maybe DFK. We'll see.

[Special World]

Futari and MMP/Pink Sweets are definitely great first picks. I'd steer clear of DFK for now, though.

[Noiryt]

I'm not trying to condone it but the SH3 games emulated on mame can run full speed. A PC with a modern CPU clocked over 4ghz can do it. Fraps is stuck at 60 for all of them here, which indicates emulation is at 100% speed. Deathsmiles included.

I'll add that I own every 360 release playable on a non-Japanese console (which are obviously superior to mame for so many reasons) and that these versions have less input lag, but not by much.

Mod this post if you think it is inapropriate, I just thought it was relevant for those wondering about it.